*Official Benchmark Thread* - Post it here or it didn't happen :D

[Talon]

After using the Artic 420mm AIO for a month, I have given up on it being better than my previous 280mm Corsair AIO and decided to try out Corsair again and decide on which to send back. 

 

I grabbed a Corsair H170i 420mm AIO "Open Box" on Amazon for a significant discount figuring I could send it back if it was truly defective. It arrived this afternoon and it was BRAND NEW. I think someone returned the item after deciding against it. The factory seal had never been broken and all parts inside the box were still factory wrapped and still had the factory thermal material on the cold plate. Unreal deal!  I quickly swapped out the coolers, but not before doing some testing pre and post new cooler. 

 

The Artic Liquid Freezer for my setup is decidedly worse. Same thermal paste was used. Same ambient temps controlled with AC. Both kits were using their respective LGA 1700 Kit. The Corsair cooler even had it's gamer boy, hello kitty LCD upgrade attachment which can't help temps. The difference is shocking. 

 

Artic 420mm AIO - 

 

 

Corsair 420mm AIO - 

[electrosoft]

45 minutes ago, Talon said:

After using the Artic 420mm AIO for a month, I have given up on it being better than my previous 280mm Corsair AIO and decided to try out Corsair again and decide on which to send back. 

 

I grabbed a Corsair H170i 420mm AIO "Open Box" on Amazon for a significant discount figuring I could send it back if it was truly defective. It arrived this afternoon and it was BRAND NEW. I think someone returned the item after deciding against it. The factory seal had never been broken and all parts inside the box were still factory wrapped and still had the factory thermal material on the cold plate. Unreal deal!  I quickly swapped out the coolers, but not before doing some testing pre and post new cooler. 

 

The Artic Liquid Freezer for my setup is decidedly worse. Same thermal paste was used. Same ambient temps controlled with AC. Both kits were using their respective LGA 1700 Kit. The Corsair cooler even had it's gamer boy, hello kitty LCD upgrade attachment which can't help temps. The difference is shocking. 

 

Artic 420mm AIO - 

 

 

Corsair 420mm AIO - 

 

Arctic's issue has been and will continue to be the convenience and downfall of an integrated pump control but even compared against my EVGA CLC 280 and 360 it wasn't a stand out winner but it is much quieter under load and responds better to lower rpm fans than the EVGA due to its thicker fin stacks.

 

You might be at a point where building out a basic custom loop just for the CPU will yield you optimal results. It is what I'm going to do next time around just for the CPU with a 360mm or 420mm, D5, flexible tubing and QDCs. Once in place, it should be superior to any AIO on the market and not too expensive. I already picked up a 360mm rad that's sitting on the shelf that's 20 fpi rated and looks competent enough for an initial build out.

 

 

[Talon]

23 minutes ago, electrosoft said:

 

Arctic's issue has been and will continue to be the convenience and downfall of an integrated pump control but even compared against my EVGA CLC 280 and 360 it wasn't a stand out winner but it is much quieter under load and responds better to lower rpm fans than the EVGA due to its thicker fin stacks.

 

You might be at a point where building out a basic custom loop just for the CPU will yield you optimal results. It is what I'm going to do next time around just for the CPU with a 360mm or 420mm, D5, flexible tubing and QDCs. Once in place, it should be superior to any AIO on the market and not too expensive. I already picked up a 360mm rad that's sitting on the shelf that's 20 fpi rated and looks competent enough for an initial build out.

 

 

 

Next gen I think I'm going full custom water for the CPU, but likely not the GPU since it seems those blocks are a lot less reusable like a CPU block. The Artic cooler was definitely a simple setup and no terrible Corsair software, but the lack of pump control/speed may have been the issue. The rad block was impressive, and may have benefitted from beefier fans to push air through it. 

[Papusan]

1 hour ago, Talon said:

 

Next gen I think I'm going full custom water for the CPU, but likely not the GPU since it seems those blocks are a lot less reusable like a CPU block. The Artic cooler was definitely a simple setup and no terrible Corsair software, but the lack of pump control/speed may have been the issue. The rad block was impressive, and may have benefitted from beefier fans to push air through it. 

I expect you used the stock fans for the Artic cooler. They are all too weak and run slow. And none should connect the fans together with the pump head as the default setup. The fans is simply too weak if you want best cooling performance. + they reduce pump speed if you use the PWM signal to control the fan speed. The pump will also have a longer life if you restrict it from running slow speed or up and down as a jojo (this also hamper the cooling performance + clogging up the cold plate cooling fins). But most people value minimum fan and pump noise over functionality, sooo.

 

What benefits will you have from sub 2.5W less power consumption pr/hour for a single Pc or 10? I can understand it if you have +1000 pc's running 24/7/365 but I don't think Arctic have this type consumers in mind. 

 

[jaybee83]

2 hours ago, Talon said:

After using the Artic 420mm AIO for a month, I have given up on it being better than my previous 280mm Corsair AIO and decided to try out Corsair again and decide on which to send back. 

 

I grabbed a Corsair H170i 420mm AIO "Open Box" on Amazon for a significant discount figuring I could send it back if it was truly defective. It arrived this afternoon and it was BRAND NEW. I think someone returned the item after deciding against it. The factory seal had never been broken and all parts inside the box were still factory wrapped and still had the factory thermal material on the cold plate. Unreal deal!  I quickly swapped out the coolers, but not before doing some testing pre and post new cooler. 

 

The Artic Liquid Freezer for my setup is decidedly worse. Same thermal paste was used. Same ambient temps controlled with AC. Both kits were using their respective LGA 1700 Kit. The Corsair cooler even had it's gamer boy, hello kitty LCD upgrade attachment which can't help temps. The difference is shocking. 

 

Artic 420mm AIO - 

 

 

Corsair 420mm AIO - 

 

as @papusan just mentioned, would be interesting to see how the arctic would fare with the corsair fans and vice versa. iirc the arctic rad is much thicker than its corsair colleague, so that leaves the pump and the fans as variables....unless of course the fin density is significantly different between the two rads? or the arctic cold plate is somehow skewed...

 

in any case, congratz on that "open box" deal! 🙂 

[Papusan]

17 minutes ago, jaybee83 said:

 

as @papusan just mentioned, would be interesting to see how the arctic would fare with the corsair fans and vice versa. iirc the arctic rad is much thicker than its corsair colleague, so that leaves the pump and the fans as variables....unless of course the fin density is significantly different between the two rads? or the arctic cold plate is somehow skewed...

 

in any case, congratz on that "open box" deal! 🙂 

The connection between the fans and the the pump is an retarded design from Arctic (but sadly some value it as an advantage because of less cable mess - design over functionality once again). Pump and fans should never have to be connected together as one single unit. The MB have several fan headers for a reason🙃

[jaybee83]

12 minutes ago, Papusan said:

The connection between the fans and the the pump is an retarded design from Arctic (but sadly some value it as an advantage because of less cable mess - design over functionality once again). Pump and fans should never have to be connected together as one single unit. The MB have several fan headers for a reason🙃

surely nobody could stop us from just connecting the fans directly to the mobo instead of the pump? 😋 or is there some kinda gimmick that prevents the pump from switching on if u dont have the fans connected to it? 😅

[Papusan]

57 minutes ago, jaybee83 said:

surely nobody could stop us from just connecting the fans directly to the mobo instead of the pump? 😋 or is there some kinda gimmick that prevents the pump from switching on if u dont have the fans connected to it? 😅

Nope, Arctic meant it looks prettier with a single power cable from the 3 fans going hided through the water cable sleeving from rad to the pump head and being connected there. Aka one cable fits all from the MB to the pump to power up everything. This means the pump will rotate at minimum if the fans run slow/low load. This is doomed to clogg up the cold plates cooling fins in the pump head before time. And this will hamper the water flow (the water will be hotter than needed). 

 

[Mr. Fox]

My pumps and fans all run full speed 24/7. I don't own any loud fans (by my definition of loud). Can I hear them? Yes. Of course. Are they obnoxiously screaming at me and interfering with my work that involves at least several hours of video conferencing every day. Nope. There are a total of 26 120mm PC fans running full blast within 6 feet of the webcam microphone, and it is a sensitive mic. They are very low decibel white noise that become an obscure element of my environment, and nobody on the other end of the video conference can identify the fact that they are running. No one has ever asked or complained about background noise.

 

The pumps are another story entirely. If I turn the fans off, unless I am deliberately paying attention the sound of the pumps isn't even noticed. Running at full speed, the pumps are simply too quiet to draw special notice of the sound they are making. And, I have a total of five D5 pumps running within a 3.5 foot radius of my head. Having a quieter pump that pulls less power is a non-issue. They produce no more noise than the sound of the air coming through the vent in my ceiling when the central air conditioning system is running. If the inconsequential amount of audible sound the pumps emit when running full blast were an issue for me, I would have other serious audio bondage issues that might warrant being addressed by a mental health professional.

 

The fans and pumps on my external cooling system are powered by their own ATX PSU.  When I go to bed my computers are turned off and I flip off the power to the external cooling system as well. The difference in "noise" between that being turned off versus on is so small that I sometimes forget to turn it on before powering on the computer and the only thing that reminds me I need to turn it on as well is the beeping of the flow indicator complaining about the 0 liters per hour flow rate.

[electrosoft]

Nice overview and comparison to the original KPE 3090 board. With the 4000 series slated to be released by F2022, this may be a non starter.

 

 

[electrosoft]

Nail in the coffin for anyone contemplating a KPE 3090ti and expecting/wanting a block for it from EVGA:

 

[Mr. Fox]

5 minutes ago, electrosoft said:

Nail in the coffin for anyone contemplating a KPE 3090ti and expecting/wanting a block for it from EVGA:

 

Wow. What a great reason to avoid purchasing a 3090 Ti Kingpin card. I am already predisposed to avoiding them in the future with only one readily available option, grossly overpriced, and not the best one. If there is going to be no Hydro Copper available for it, then it would be an utterly worthless product to me. While I have no intention of purchasing a 3090 Ti, I would be super pissed to find out after buying a Kingpin card that there was no plan to offer the water block.

[Papusan]

4 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

Wow. What a great reason to avoid purchasing a 3090 Ti Kingpin card. I am already predisposed to avoiding them in the future with only one readily available option, grossly overpriced, and not the best one. If there is going to be no Hydro Copper available for it, then it would be an utterly worthless product to me. While I have no intention of purchasing a 3090 Ti, I would be super pissed to find out after buying a Kingpin card that there was no plan to offer the water block.

And what with 4000 series? Nvidia will push out 4090 first then the Ti version will come later. 

[Talon]

5 hours ago, electrosoft said:

Nice overview and comparison to the original KPE 3090 board. With the 4000 series slated to be released by F2022, this may be a non starter.

 

 

 

5 hours ago, electrosoft said:

Nail in the coffin for anyone contemplating a KPE 3090ti and expecting/wanting a block for it from EVGA:

 

 

Looking like RTX 4090 Ti is going to be here sooner rather than later. They've dropped the prices of all the FTW3 cards to exact same price and now previous Ultra FTW3 is price of the KPE. I don't see a point of buying the card this late in the game unless you're a collector of KP cards.

[Mr. Fox]

32 minutes ago, Talon said:

 

 

Looking like RTX 4090 Ti is going to be here sooner rather than later. They've dropped the prices of all the FTW3 cards to exact same price and now previous Ultra FTW3 is price of the KPE. I don't see a point of buying the card this late in the game unless you're a collector of KP cards.

And, 12+ months after that a 4090 Ti KPE with no water block, LOL. I was contemplating making my approach going forward to only purchasing used parts, but if this is a glimpse into what the future holds for Kingpin GPUs they might not ever be considered one of the options for new or used. Not having a water block available is an extremely damning thing, for which there is no possibility of recovery. If they were smart they would sell exclusively the Hydro Copper model and skip the stupid hybrid thing enitrely.

[johnksss]

Didn't beat my old score form back in February, but getting closer...

[Papusan]

 

https://hwbot.org/submission/4999893_papusan_3dmark___sky_diver_geforce_gtx_1070_67405_marks  From 7th to 3rd🙂

 

https://hwbot.org/submission/4999907_papusan_3dmark___ice_storm_geforce_gtx_1070_377976_marks

 

https://hwbot.org/submission/4999923_papusan_3dmark___ice_storm_extreme_geforce_gtx_1070_331785_marks

 

https://hwbot.org/submission/4999920_papusan_3dmark___ice_storm_unlimited_geforce_gtx_1070_388721_marks

 

Edit.

https://hwbot.org/submission/5001291_papusan_3dmark03_geforce_gtx_1070_266002_marks

 

[Ashtrix]

 

 

Greetings all, hope everyone had a great weekend !!

 

Horrible opening with BGA shilling to hell about how thin it is, absolute sad nonsense GARBAGE paired with Win11 and ChromeOS both being absolute dumpster class. Disgusting but yea, BGA mints cash AMD wants that like Intel, Ngreedia, crApple. We also have Azor the ex-Dellienware anti socketed pro BGA guy also comes to add his share of PR "Gamers looking for a Desktop like experience in a gaming laptop" "Alienware M17 R5" and also his BS about how thin these new BGA dumpsters are, hey please forget the throttling pile what it is lmao. 1/2 of the video is about BGA. Why not open with Desktop beast Zen 4 ? I digress.

 

Looks like they are adding some BIOS / Firmware level Direct Storage option like Smart Access Storage, more Microshaft propreitary garbage to BGA machines. I hope Vulkan have something, but anyways all this for Gaming is just mostly smoke and mirrors as it's mostly useful for consoles of 8th gen because they are having slow molasses storage. And game devs tailoring for them. I doubt there would be any sort of resource contention reduction like CPU cycles and GPU which will impact in higher performance with that DX Storage except for load times. That upcoming DOA Forspoken already demoed it with even SATA SSDs but they didn't put what's the loading speed without that option...moving on..

 

SKIP TO 17:35 to get to the actual Hardware

 

AM4 legacy is shown, no doubt it's a massive achievement even it it's flaws, I like it. So new IOD means I think all the existing nonsensical flaky chips in Zen 3 are things of past ?. No X3D stack on Zen 4, probably as we all know it's just an experiment for AMD.

 

 

Zen 4 - New IODie on TSMC 6N with iGPU (waste of space but yeah they want to get more SI orders and also streamline their pipeline probably). 5GHz+ sustained clocks. TSMC 5N node with higher TDP than Zen 3, 15% IPC growth and extra L2 Cache. Yep Cache is the future, Intel knew this with i7 5775C but axed it and made it only for Apple BGA. But AMD cashed on it on EPYC and X3D Gaming processor. And unfortunately no X3D Cache stack, probably AMD decided it's not worth for the extra heat and more cost and they need high speed clocks now.

 

 

 

New IO capabilities are very good, it's having 4 more CPU PCIe lanes over 12900K (20 CPU lanes) (which is same as of 11900K only PCIe link speed changed and Chipset with DMI), AM5's having dual chipset design. Ton of I/O here...ofc the new X670E Segmentation where they are having PCIe5.0 on all and they also say it's having more VRM components too. I feel this is a very bad point they added a segmentation on top Mobo now... Esp the fact is all boards have PCIe5.0 SSD M.2 and GPU X16 lanes slot. Wonder what the extra I/O would be.

 

So basically AM5's X670E gets an x4 speed PCIe5.0 SSD option on 12900K this has to be done on PCIe slot and not a direct option (meaning X16 GPU lane top slot will be X8 if using 5.0 SSD). I bet Z790 will be on par like this, since LGA1700 has 1800pins so easy for Intel to add more PCIe lanes to the RPL processors. Also insane I/O, I want to know what's the DMI link speed on X670. Z690 got PCIe4.0x8, X570 had PCIe4.0x4, Z590 with 11th gen was PCIe3.0x8 (Same as X570) and Z590 with 10th gen was PCIe3.0x4. But how much does PCIe5.0 SSD even do over PCIe 3.0 even lol in reality, I doubt many use SSDs to max, because if they do the DMI will be choked. Look at it, just 2x NVMe SSDs max throughput is enough to saturate the DMI on Z690. 

 

A shame how segmentation is coming, this marks HEDT death ? I hope not. Fingers crossed for Sapphire Rapids XEON.

 

Also Extreme Overclocking lol, how AMD will do the OC now is interesting, I want to see if AMD allows like Intel fixed high speed Clock on ALL CORES and not that PBO2 again and call the annoying Curve Optimizer BS and Voltage as OC. They are having new XMP rival though. Gotta see the battle in Fall 2022 🙂

 

5.5GHz clock rate is shown in the demo btw, that's a big achievement for AMD. Plus Blender workload is clearly shown as Zen 4 based pre-prod CPU is beating out 12900K by 31% in speed (the CPU is 7950X  as Lisa Su says both are 16C processors lol). No wonder Big Little gets destroyed by real Big Cores running at super fast speeds.

[electrosoft]

1 hour ago, Ashtrix said:

 

 

Greetings all, hope everyone had a great weekend !!

 

Horrible opening with BGA shilling to hell about how thin it is, absolute sad nonsense GARBAGE paired with Win11 and ChromeOS both being absolute dumpster class. Disgusting but yea, BGA mints cash AMD wants that like Intel, Ngreedia, crApple. We also have Azor the ex-Dellienware anti socketed pro BGA guy also comes to add his share of PR "Gamers looking for a Desktop like experience in a gaming laptop" "Alienware M17 R5" and also his BS about how thin these new BGA dumpsters are, hey please forget the throttling pile what it is lmao. 1/2 of the video is about BGA. Why not open with Desktop beast Zen 4 ? I digress.

 

Looks like they are adding some BIOS / Firmware level Direct Storage option like Smart Access Storage, more Microshaft propreitary garbage to BGA machines. I hope Vulkan have something, but anyways all this for Gaming is just mostly smoke and mirrors as it's mostly useful for consoles of 8th gen because they are having slow molasses storage. And game devs tailoring for them. I doubt there would be any sort of resource contention reduction like CPU cycles and GPU which will impact in higher performance with that DX Storage except for load times. That upcoming DOA Forspoken already demoed it with even SATA SSDs but they didn't put what's the loading speed without that option...moving on..

 

SKIP TO 17:35 to get to the actual Hardware

 

AM4 legacy is shown, no doubt it's a massive achievement even it it's flaws, I like it. So new IOD means I think all the existing nonsensical flaky chips in Zen 3 are things of past ?. No X3D stack on Zen 4, probably as we all know it's just an experiment for AMD.

 

 

Zen 4 - New IODie on TSMC 6N with iGPU (waste of space but yeah they want to get more SI orders and also streamline their pipeline probably). 5GHz+ sustained clocks. TSMC 5N node with higher TDP than Zen 3, 15% IPC growth and extra L2 Cache. Yep Cache is the future, Intel knew this with i7 5775C but axed it and made it only for Apple BGA. But AMD cashed on it on EPYC and X3D Gaming processor. And unfortunately no X3D Cache stack, probably AMD decided it's not worth for the extra heat and more cost and they need high speed clocks now.

 

 

 

New IO capabilities are very good, it's having 4 more CPU PCIe lanes over 12900K (20 CPU lanes) (which is same as of 11900K only PCIe link speed changed and Chipset with DMI), AM5's having dual chipset design. Ton of I/O here...ofc the new X670E Segmentation where they are having PCIe5.0 on all and they also say it's having more VRM components too. I feel this is a very bad point they added a segmentation on top Mobo now... Esp the fact is all boards have PCIe5.0 SSD M.2 and GPU X16 lanes slot. Wonder what the extra I/O would be.

 

So basically AM5's X670E gets an x4 speed PCIe5.0 SSD option on 12900K this has to be done on PCIe slot and not a direct option (meaning X16 GPU lane top slot will be X8 if using 5.0 SSD). I bet Z790 will be on par like this, since LGA1700 has 1800pins so easy for Intel to add more PCIe lanes to the RPL processors. Also insane I/O, I want to know what's the DMI link speed on X670. Z690 got PCIe4.0x8, X570 had PCIe4.0x4, Z590 with 11th gen was PCIe3.0x8 (Same as X570) and Z590 with 10th gen was PCIe3.0x4. But how much does PCIe5.0 SSD even do over PCIe 3.0 even lol in reality, I doubt many use SSDs to max, because if they do the DMI will be choked. Look at it, just 2x NVMe SSDs max throughput is enough to saturate the DMI on Z690. 

 

A shame how segmentation is coming, this marks HEDT death ? I hope not. Fingers crossed for Sapphire Rapids XEON.

 

Also Extreme Overclocking lol, how AMD will do the OC now is interesting, I want to see if AMD allows like Intel fixed high speed Clock on ALL CORES and not that PBO2 again and call the annoying Curve Optimizer BS and Voltage as OC. They are having new XMP rival though. Gotta see the battle in Fall 2022 🙂

 

5.5GHz clock rate is shown in the demo btw, that's a big achievement for AMD. Plus Blender workload is clearly shown as Zen 4 based pre-prod CPU is beating out 12900K by 31% in speed (the CPU is 7950X  as Lisa Su says both are 16C processors lol). No wonder Big Little gets destroyed by real Big Cores running at super fast speeds.

 

Like Intel, AMD knows the mobile market is still the largest growth vector and BGA is everywhere and very profitable on many levels to the detriment of those who want flexibility, upgrade ability and real cooling and powerful chassis.

As someone who runs multiple variants of Linux, I cringe when I see anything integrated hardware wise that even has a whiff of proprietary M$.

 

I do like that they said AM5 will have a very long socket shelf life. One thing you can't deny is AMD extracted everything out of their previous socket and you have very old systems being able to drop in a 5800X3D and have an immediate and massive upgrade.

 

It seems AMD has hit a wall with 16 cores but at least we're getting real cores and not this hybrid from Intel. It comes down to will the IPC and clock uplift of 7000 outduel the additional 8 E-Snores with RPL along with the cache upgrades and architectural refinements. I suspect Intel will still retain the overall IPC crown on P-Cores. No surprise it beats the 12900k by 31% on MT loads as even the 12900k barely outclassed the 5950x in MT loads.

 

I was overall impressed with AMDs new offerings and if they hold true (remember we're seeing a presentation presenting their 7000 series in the best light), they will be worthy contenders at lower TDP albeit that has been officially raised to 170w now (vs Intel 241w) but in real world usage and overclocking? All that will fly right out the window.

 

As for overclocking, I worked with PBO and CO for a bit before tossing it out the window and just overclocking using a traditional approach on my 5800X since PBO and CO were entirely too dependent on the type of load and had clocks all over the place including in games where you would shoot up to 5ghz and then throttle down to 4.4ghz in some situations. I preferred a fixed OC based on vcore and heat management.

 

If Intel delivers on HEDT (fingers crossed), I don't think AMD can ignore that (or they can to their own detriment).

 

 

[jaybee83]

5 hours ago, Ashtrix said:

Zen 4 - New IODie on TSMC 6N with iGPU (waste of space but yeah they want to get more SI orders and also streamline their pipeline probably). 5GHz+ sustained clocks. TSMC 5N node with higher TDP than Zen 3, 15% IPC growth and extra L2 Cache. Yep Cache is the future, Intel knew this with i7 5775C but axed it and made it only for Apple BGA. But AMD cashed on it on EPYC and X3D Gaming processor. And unfortunately no X3D Cache stack, probably AMD decided it's not worth for the extra heat and more cost and they need high speed clocks now.

 

AMD already confirmed that the iGPU will only be focused on troubleshooting, i.e. they will not try and push it as a "gaming option", thus not waste any more silicon space than absolutely necessary. i for one think thats kinda neat to have an igpu as a backup, but yeah, as mentioned, pls dont waste too much power and space on it, just give it display output and thats it.

 

in any case, IM EXCITED! ive been saving for 2+ years now and AM5 will be the platform im aiming for 😄 why, u might ask? because with AMD will definitely have more generations on a single platform to look forward to than intel. plus, im not quite convinced yet of that big.little approach on desktop.... good times! this fall ill finally switch back to monster desktop land after 15 years on laptop 😛 😁😎

[Papusan]

6 hours ago, Ashtrix said:

 

 

Greetings all, hope everyone had a great weekend !!

 

Horrible opening with BGA shilling to hell about how thin it is, absolute sad nonsense GARBAGE paired with Win11 and ChromeOS both being absolute dumpster class. Disgusting but yea, BGA mints cash AMD wants that like Intel, Ngreedia, crApple. We also have Azor the ex-Dellienware anti socketed pro BGA guy also comes to add his share of PR "Gamers looking for a Desktop like experience in a gaming laptop" "Alienware M17 R5" and also his BS about how thin these new BGA dumpsters are, hey please forget the throttling pile what it is lmao. 1/2 of the video is about BGA. Why not open with Desktop beast Zen 4 ? I digress.

 

Looks like they are adding some BIOS / Firmware level Direct Storage option like Smart Access Storage, more Microshaft propreitary garbage to BGA machines. I hope Vulkan have something, but anyways all this for Gaming is just mostly smoke and mirrors as it's mostly useful for consoles of 8th gen because they are having slow molasses storage. And game devs tailoring for them. I doubt there would be any sort of resource contention reduction like CPU cycles and GPU which will impact in higher performance with that DX Storage except for load times. That upcoming DOA Forspoken already demoed it with even SATA SSDs but they didn't put what's the loading speed without that option...moving on..

 

SKIP TO 17:35 to get to the actual Hardware

 

AM4 legacy is shown, no doubt it's a massive achievement even it it's flaws, I like it. So new IOD means I think all the existing nonsensical flaky chips in Zen 3 are things of past ?. No X3D stack on Zen 4, probably as we all know it's just an experiment for AMD.

 

 

Zen 4 - New IODie on TSMC 6N with iGPU (waste of space but yeah they want to get more SI orders and also streamline their pipeline probably). 5GHz+ sustained clocks. TSMC 5N node with higher TDP than Zen 3, 15% IPC growth and extra L2 Cache. Yep Cache is the future, Intel knew this with i7 5775C but axed it and made it only for Apple BGA. But AMD cashed on it on EPYC and X3D Gaming processor. And unfortunately no X3D Cache stack, probably AMD decided it's not worth for the extra heat and more cost and they need high speed clocks now.

 

 

 

New IO capabilities are very good, it's having 4 more CPU PCIe lanes over 12900K (20 CPU lanes) (which is same as of 11900K only PCIe link speed changed and Chipset with DMI), AM5's having dual chipset design. Ton of I/O here...ofc the new X670E Segmentation where they are having PCIe5.0 on all and they also say it's having more VRM components too. I feel this is a very bad point they added a segmentation on top Mobo now... Esp the fact is all boards have PCIe5.0 SSD M.2 and GPU X16 lanes slot. Wonder what the extra I/O would be.

 

So basically AM5's X670E gets an x4 speed PCIe5.0 SSD option on 12900K this has to be done on PCIe slot and not a direct option (meaning X16 GPU lane top slot will be X8 if using 5.0 SSD). I bet Z790 will be on par like this, since LGA1700 has 1800pins so easy for Intel to add more PCIe lanes to the RPL processors. Also insane I/O, I want to know what's the DMI link speed on X670. Z690 got PCIe4.0x8, X570 had PCIe4.0x4, Z590 with 11th gen was PCIe3.0x8 (Same as X570) and Z590 with 10th gen was PCIe3.0x4. But how much does PCIe5.0 SSD even do over PCIe 3.0 even lol in reality, I doubt many use SSDs to max, because if they do the DMI will be choked. Look at it, just 2x NVMe SSDs max throughput is enough to saturate the DMI on Z690. 

 

A shame how segmentation is coming, this marks HEDT death ? I hope not. Fingers crossed for Sapphire Rapids XEON.

 

Also Extreme Overclocking lol, how AMD will do the OC now is interesting, I want to see if AMD allows like Intel fixed high speed Clock on ALL CORES and not that PBO2 again and call the annoying Curve Optimizer BS and Voltage as OC. They are having new XMP rival though. Gotta see the battle in Fall 2022 🙂

 

5.5GHz clock rate is shown in the demo btw, that's a big achievement for AMD. Plus Blender workload is clearly shown as Zen 4 based pre-prod CPU is beating out 12900K by 31% in speed (the CPU is 7950X  as Lisa Su says both are 16C processors lol). No wonder Big Little gets destroyed by real Big Cores running at super fast speeds.

Nice write up bro. An interesting bit as bro @electrosofttalked about below. IPC and clock speed increase (in benchmarks). What do AMD really offer? Not so sure what they try to claim for the Higher single theaded boost and higher IPC. I can't find this to fits together. 15% higher single threaded bench score with higher boost clocks and included the higher IPC. What made the 15% performance increse the IPC or the higher clock speed? What I know is that Cinebench respond on both (IPC and boost clocks). What AMD show here is somewhat weird vs their statements about the performance increase.

 

https://videocardz.com/newz/amd-ryzen-7000-desktop-series-to-offer-over-15-single-thread-uplift-launch-this-fall

 

And if you add the 15% perf increase above the older 16 cores 5950X, the new one still offer low sinlgle threaded performance and don't match IPC increase paired with the claimed much higher clock speed. It seems AMD have put all the balls in their hat and offer lower all core boost clocks due the 16 real cores and try offer higher single/double cores clock speed. Aka compete nicely with Intel in gaming and then kill them to breakfast in all cores tasks.

 

Damn the Intel love for Hybrid and baby cores to try keep the TDP low enough to match most of the small AIO's out there. Intel can brand all their new chips with whatever they want but their chips is a power hog (one of the reasons they is forced to put in those e-cores). A small die help also on the bottom line. Aka the profits.

 

Yep, what I see from AMD is weird numbers that don't match what they will offer.

 

https://www.cpu-monkey.com/en/cpu-amd_ryzen_9_5950x

intel…

 

Btw. I expect AMD will offer the 3D Cashe tech for the refresh next year. AMD ain’t good offer new chips every year. Re-hash the old is typical AMD.

---------------------------------------------------------------

 

Btw. A new baby got a new home 🙂 Sorry bro @electrosoftI forgot put on my crocks😁 Hope you are happy enough with the "Norwegian" Viking Boa shoes🙃 Damn good shoes.

 

 

[Mr. Fox]

7 hours ago, Ashtrix said:

Also Extreme Overclocking lol, how AMD will do the OC now is interesting, I want to see if AMD allows like Intel fixed high speed Clock on ALL CORES and not that PBO2 again and call the annoying Curve Optimizer BS and Voltage as OC. They are having new XMP rival though. Gotta see the battle in Fall 2022 🙂

 

5.5GHz clock rate is shown in the demo btw, that's a big achievement for AMD. Plus Blender workload is clearly shown as Zen 4 based pre-prod CPU is beating out 12900K by 31% in speed (the CPU is 7950X  as Lisa Su says both are 16C processors lol). No wonder Big Little gets destroyed by real Big Cores running at super fast speeds.

 

2 hours ago, Papusan said:

What do AMD really offer? Not so sure what they try to claim for the Higher single theaded boost and higher IPC. I can't find this to fits together. 15% higher single threaded bench score with higher boost clocks and included the higher IPC. What made the 15% performance increse the IPC or the higher clock speed? What I know is that Cinebench respond on both (IPC and boost clocks). What AMD show here is somewhat weird vs their statements about the performance increase.

If something seems too good to be true, chances are great that is going to be the case. It certainly was for my 5950X experience. Things looked good on the surface, or when looking at benchmark screenshots, but that was about as far as it went. In practical application, the ownership experience really sucked. 

 

Perhaps they only speak of single thread performance because the high boost clock does not work with all core overclocking, or the temperatures are so far out of control that the only way you can do it on all cores is with LN2 (same as Ryzen 9 5XXX). And, yeah... that mickey mouse PBO wuss overclocking nonsense was/is definitely for the birds. With stock and aftermarket software, or using the BIOS, it was never all it was cracked up to be. The other thing is, whatever the clock speeds are, even if they are much higher that last gen, those clock speeds instantly become the new normal. They're no longer special... they're normal and expected. If I can't extract another 500MHz or so on all core on what I buy, then it's not worth a damn. It still sucks at overclocking, and isn't worth buying. About 75-90% of the pleasure I derive from owning a high end CPU or GPU  is contingent upon the ability to overclock the crap out of it and have something remarkably better than the gamerkid mama's-boy trash.

 

Maybe they recently figured out what real overclocking looks like. Or, maybe Frank Azor (who doesn't know) has effectively tutored them on how to cleverly represent things so they appear to be the way you want them to appear. Time will tell. But, we will still be left with having to rely on marketing hype and fanboys like last time and that didn't work well for me. We mostly heard and saw what looked good on the surface and the stuff that wasn't so good, or was worse than it sounded like it was going to be, was not evident until it was too late to undo the mistake. 

[Papusan]

5 hours ago, Papusan said:

Btw. A new baby got a new home 🙂 Sorry bro @electrosoftI forgot put on my crocks😁 Hope you are happy enough with the "Norwegian" Viking Boa shoes🙃 Damn good shoes.

Not a bad start with the new old. The Asic score for the GTX 670 Asus card is 78.6%. And run a bit hot but this is to be expected with a 10 years old card 🙂 

 

Oh'well. Fast and not tuned in and got 1th, 2nd and 4th place on the first try in the benches below.

 

https://hwbot.org/submission/5002872_papusan_3dmark05_geforce_gtx_670_89562_marks

 

https://hwbot.org/submission/5002874_papusan_3dmark06_geforce_gtx_670_62005_marks

 

https://hwbot.org/submission/5002877_papusan_aquamark_geforce_gtx_670_522949_marks

3 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

 

If something seems too good to be true, chances are great that is going to be the case. It certainly was for my 5950X experience. Things looked good on the surface, or when looking at benchmark screenshots, but that was about as far as it went. In practical application, the ownership experience really sucked. 

 

Perhaps they only speak of single thread performance because the high boost clock does not work with all core overclocking, or the temperatures are so far out of control that the only way you can do it on all cores is with LN2 (same as Ryzen 9 5XXX). And, yeah... that mickey mouse PBO wuss overclocking nonsense was/is definitely for the birds. With stock and aftermarket software, or using the BIOS, it was never all it was cracked up to be. The other thing is, whatever the clock speeds are, even if they are much higher that last gen, those clock speeds instantly become the new normal. They're no longer special... they're normal and expected. If I can't extract another 500MHz or so on all core on what I buy, then it's not worth a damn. It still sucks at overclocking, and isn't worth buying. About 75-90% of the pleasure I derive from owning a high end CPU or GPU  is contingent upon the ability to overclock the crap out of it and have something remarkably better than the gamerkid mama's-boy trash.

 

Maybe they recently figured out what real overclocking looks like. Or, maybe Frank Azor (who doesn't know) has effectively tutored them on how to cleverly represent things so they appear to be the way you want them to appear. Time will tell. But, we will still be left with having to rely on marketing hype and fanboys like last time and that didn't work well for me. We mostly heard and saw what looked good on the surface and the stuff that wasn't so good, or was worse than it sounded like it was going to be, was not evident until it was too late to undo the mistake. 

Nice write up. But my best bet.... More and faster I/O means probably a new round wit their previous mess with 5000 series chips. More doesn't always mean better. How long have they struggled with stabillity issues? Near 2 years now. And I think the reason they won't push it out before the fall. Aka it will be 2 years after the release of 5000 series chips and  this means they still have those or simular problems even with the new platform. Yep, 16 real cores will kill the Raptor Hybrid mess in all multi threaded benches/tasks but it will come with a bad taste. Everything new with this new AMD platform will be a mess the next coming 6-12 months.

[Mr. Fox]

If anyone has issues with BenchMate 0.10.9.2 not functioning (it hasn't worked for me for a while on LTSC 2019) I finally got fed up with the developer doing noting about the problem and figured out what was messed up on my own. It's fixed now. What is weird is the prior version (0.10.8.0) installed and worked perfectly.

 

My solution is posted here: The official BenchMate support thread | HWBOT Community Forums

 

This is what it was doing to me before I fixed it. When I looked in the BenchMate error logs it was not finding the driver file, and it was because BenchMate setup wasn't installing the drivers in the folder where it is supposed to install them. (The installation always appeared to complete with no errors, but apparently that was not the case.) The reason I was seeing the error telling me "The driver file is not accessible" is because it did not exist where it was supposed to exist.

 

[Papusan]

On 5/24/2022 at 4:14 AM, Papusan said:

Not a bad start with the new old. The Asic score for the GTX 670 Asus card is 78.6%. And run a bit hot but this is to be expected with a 10 years old card 🙂 

Opened up the new old and yep, the thermal stamp was totally dried out. Nothing will survive 10 years wear and tear. And I don't like such cold plate composition. Either pure copper cold plate or a VC. This type coldplates will never give you max thermal conductivity. This GTX 670 was a $440 purchase 10 years ago (equal $583.37 today) and compared to the heatsink design they use on nowadays graphics cards from same SKU line up it should have costed a lot less. Yep, nvidia and the OEM made a lot money going with a cheapo design in the old days.  

 

 

Bro Fox. Ready to swap out your desktop with a real Desktop Replacement? 

Razer Blade 17 review: This ultra-luxe gaming laptop can replace your desktop

The Razer Blade 17 is a robust laptop with a stunning display, a powerful 12th-gen CPU, and a great selection of ports.

 

And here is a cheaper option than the Razer turdbook above and equal portable. If not a much more portable soultion🙂 Why not just use a smartphone?

Hardware

Zotac's minuscule Windows 11 Pro desktop PC is only slightly bigger than your phone

Carry it anywhere or hide it behind your monitor

 

 

https://hwbot.org/submission/5003557_papusan_3dmark2001_se_geforce_gtx_670_155521_marks

 

https://hwbot.org/submission/5003514_papusan_3dmark___cloud_gate_geforce_gtx_670_46251_marks