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Clamibot

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Everything posted by Clamibot

  1. Clamibot
    That's pretty much the reason I've always preferred laptops over desktops. I really like having a computer I can use anywhere I want, whenever I want. That's enough to keep me buying DTRs even though they're more expensive than the equivalent desktop setup. The convenience that the portability of laptops introduces is just too good to pass up. Even though I keep my laptop at my desk for 90% of the time, the 10% of the time I actually take it somewhere with me makes it worth having.
  2. Clamibot
    Ok so some new information: Sliger expects the Trego and Elko cases to release at the end of June now. Apparently they're getting held up because some of their other projects keep getting delayed, which is also delaying the release of these cases. My expectation is for a July or August launch. I'm expecting the release of these cases to be delayed again. It's not really an issue though sinceI don't really plan on actually building the system until Intel releases their Meteor Lake CPUs. That'll yield enough of a performance jump to where I would be comfortable building another system.
  3. Clamibot
    Let us know how the Strix is! I'm actually pretty interested in it after looking at the internals and the specs. Yeah it's BGA, but it still is a DTR and does have a desktop CPU in it, just adapted to a BGA socket. The MUX switch is has makes it attractive as well. I also read that the Strix supports power input through one of the USB-C ports as well. I thought that was pretty interesting. I wonder if it can accept power through its power inlet port and that USB-C port simultaneously. If so, then that gives the laptop a power allowance of 430 watts total, basically making it kind of like a BGA Clevo X170.
  4. Clamibot
    I understand the desire for low power draw on laptops, but on desktops? Come on! Desktops are performance oriented computers. Power draw doesn't matter at full load (note I didn't say it didn't matter at idle), since the computer is built for maximum performance. Power draw only really matters on idle since the computer shouldn't be drawing ridiculous amounts of power while doing nothing. That's just stupid. But when running at full blast, let it draw those ridiculous amounts of power, we want performance! Even for laptops, power draw really only matters on battery power, especially for performance oriented laptops. The goal on battery power is to maximize runtime, so limiting power draw makes sense. However, when plugged into the wall outlet, you have access to more power than the computer could ever draw, so it should be enabled to run wild. Power consumption doesn't matter at full load and when plugged into a wall outlet. There are two sides here. Yes power consumption does matter to a point, but on a performance oriented machine, power draw at full load doesn't matter. It does matter at idle, but not at full load. The computer is built for performance, not power efficiency. If one cares about power efficiency so much, then they should not be buying a performance oriented computer. Seems to me that people are just making poor purchasing decisions and then blaming the product they bought. That or they have unrealistic expectations. You can't circumvent physics. Speaking of which, there may be a solution that allows for thin and light performance laptops with desktop processing power without making them overheat or be loud. Eluktronics's new laptop lineup consists of gaming laptops that can be paired with with external water cooling. If that takes off, we may see larger external water coolers appear for gaming laptops. @Mr. Fox I know you wouldn't want a colostomy bag cooler as you put it 🤣, but I do think external water cooling can be made more streamlined so that it's portable as well.
  5. Clamibot
    I myself am waiting for Sliger to release their new Trego case. It's basically everything I've ever wanted out of a computer case, and I think it's what you want as well. The Trego was originally supposed to release in April, but it got delayed to this month, and now it's been delayed again to June. I don't know when the case will actually release, but I'm waiting patiently. It's a console style case that allows for a 360mm AIO, full length GPU, and an ATX motherboard. This case is really conducive to an easily deployable desktop build, which is essentially what we're going for.
  6. Clamibot
    So basically you spend most of your disposable income on computers then? If that's the case, then you sound just like me heh heh 🤣. Some of my friends think I'm rich because I have a lot of computers in my room. I'm not rich, not even close! It's just that I only have one hobby that isn't completely related to computers, and that hobby pretty much costs nothing, so I end up spending most of my disposable income on computers or parts. My hobbies in order of priority and the enjoyment I derive from them are: 1. Playing video games 2. Developing video games / programming in general 3. Overclocking and tinkering with computers 4. Playing guitar As you can see, my top 3 all have something to do with computers, so that's where my disposable income goes to. I'm very patient when it comes to buying video games, so I typically get them multiple years after release, and during a Steam sale at that, so I don't spend much on games. Playing guitar costs me nothing since I already have one. Developing games costs me nothing. Software development is my source of income as well as doubling as a hobby. Combine everything I mentioned before with frugal living and that affords me a large allowance for computer parts 🤣. I'm super glad I can really enjoy the few hobbies I have. Well that was a giant sidetrack from the conversation. Any word on Clevo releasing a 17 inch Alder Lake or Raptor Lake based DTR soon?
  7. Clamibot
    And funnily enough they're running Windows 11 themselves on "unsupported" hardware. If you go to 22:08 in the video, you'll see that this dev is using an i7 7660U. So this just confirms the high hardware requirements for Windows 11 are artificial. Any computer that can run Windows 10 well can run Windows 11 well. The only thing you'll miss out on is security features if you force Windows 11 to run on unsupported hardware, which I personally don't care about. I only care about performance. I don't think the new security features are really that beneficial to the average consumer. It would benefit corporations more. Also it seems the UI changes just make things look prettier at the cost of introducing extra steps to complete tasks. It is possible to make stuff look prettier while maintining the same level of productivity you had before, or even improving productivity. However, that is not the case here.
  8. Clamibot
    This is a very good approach to take. This is what me and one of my buddies call the N - 1 approach. Staying just a bit behind the latest and greatest typically gives you most of the performance of the newest generation while cosing much less, sometimes half if you snag a really good deal while stock is being cleared. CPUs a generation behind are typically 90-95% as powerful as the current generation unless there is some major progress like a node shrink, in which case you should just wait for the node refinement generation that comes the year after to get a CPU from this year's generation. As for GPUs, every generation is typically significantly more powerful than the last, but you can get really good deals on GPUs as stock is being cleared in preparation for the next generation of parts. I used to always like being as current as possible, but that costs too much. I'd rather get something that can fit my needs while being reasonably priced. I also still want to be able to play around with overclocking in addition to that 😁.
  9. Clamibot
    Seems what you want and what I want are very similar. I'd like a 17-19 inch laptop with just a desktop CPU, Zx90 series chipset so I can overclock the crap out of the CPU, and no dGPU. That would be perfect since as you said, the extra space afforded can give us a large battery, maybe even two or three. I remember some older laptops had dual battery options that would put the effective capacity over 100 Wh. The TSA only limits battery capacities to 100 Wh per battery. The limit for the number of batteries of that capacity that a single individual can take on a plane with them is 3. LOL imagine a DTR with tha abovementioned properties and a triple battery option. That'd leave ultrabooks in the dust on battery life. The thing with laptops is that if you're gaming on one, it's plugged in, so whether the GPU is physically inside the laptop or not does not matter. A slim eGPU + DTR with only a CPU would be the perfect setup. People who want a DTR probably don't care much about weight, so adding an eGPU to the list of things you have to carry is probably not a problem, especially if it's a slim and compact enclosure only a little larger than the actual GPU itself. I think eGPUs are going to be the future of GPU upgradeability in laptops since MXM is practically dead for regular consumers at this point. MXM is now only used in industrial settings as far as I'm aware. The performance penalty of externalizing the GPU has also massively decreased with the newer Thunderbolt 4 implementation.
  10. Clamibot
    The Clevo NH55JNNQ is the only Clevo laptop from this year that has a socketed CPU. Similarly, the X170SM-G and the X170KM-G are Clevo's 2020 and 2021 socketed laptop models for Intel CPUs. They also had two 15 inch DTRs with AMD desktop CPUs inside them, one in 2020 with the Ryzen 9 3950X and one in 2021 with the Ryzen 9 5950X. I forget the model number for those two, but the NH55JNNQ is effectively their successor since it's a 15 inch DTR itself. It's strange that Clevo is moving away from socketed hardware since this has been their specialty for about 30 years now. Despite them moving to mainly BGA systems, I do expect them to still come out with one or two per year. The prosumer market has a need for these types of laptops, so I expect them to stick around. There will just be reduced options compared to before. The issues with the X170KM-G are weird. The X170SM-G works without a hitch in most cases. It also can technically support all the same hardware the KM model does. All the SM needs is a BIOS update for Intel 11th gen CPUs to actually work. I think RTX 30xx GPUs will aready run with an SM motherboad, the only caveat being that you need to perform a driver INF mod to force the drivers to install. I think Clevo should've just updated the BIOS on some SM boards and rebranded them as KM motherboards. That would've done away with all the issues we're seeing with the KM models.
  11. Clamibot
    Holy crap you managed to get your hands on an LTX golden sample? Awesome man! So basically the next 10900K you'll have up for sale will be the second best CPU you've binned for your X170? Also I remember somebody mentioning a while back on NBR that someone had sold a mythical tier 10900K on an overclocking forum, and the thing could do 5.7 GHz all core at voltages that could be air cooled. That was insane and is probably better than Intel's golden sample chips. Imagine having that thing in your laptop! Too bad it want for 3 grand at the time. I wonder how much it'd be sold for now.
  12. Clamibot
    One thing I wish that vendors would do is offer configurations with a high end CPU and a mid range GPU and vice versa. The customer should be able to customize the system for their needs and not have to pay extra for a component they don't need. For example, I typically require a high end CPU, but mid range GPUs work for me now. Today's mid range GPUs fit my needs as an RTX 3060 TI or something with comparable processing power can render any game (including new releases) at 144 fps at medium to high settings at 1080p resolution. These are my target settings and framerate for all games. I no longer need a high end GPU to get the performance I want in games. The CPU on the other hand is a part that I will continue to need to be high end. I am a software engineer, so the extra cores a high end CPU provides me significantly cuts down on compile times. Sometimes I need to use productivity software as well, so those extra cores significantly cut down on the time required for video renders, audio re-encoding, etc. In addition, since my framerate target is 144 fps in all games, I need an extra powerful CPU to keep that framerate in CPU intensive games. Unfortunately laptop vendors do not offer "unbalanced" configurations unless you get a Clevo DTR from a boutique shop, then you can typically spec the laptop however you want it. Either that, or you build a desktop and can customize that computer's hardware to fit your needs.
  13. Clamibot
    Yeah the problem is that when there's a disconnect between what you want and what others want, it's easy to dismiss the viewpoint of other people and consider them stupid. The reality is, different products are for different people. Everyone wants to make the decision that makes the most financial sense for them, and they want something that meets their needs. 90% (maybe even more) of consumers are probably fine with BGA laptops because they just want something that works, and works well for them at that. The prosumer market is small. While most of us here on this forum are probably a part of the prosumer demographic, our demographic is much smaller, hence why there are less options for us. Even though the kinds of systems we would buy are technically superior to offerings from the other 90% of the market, they don't sell as well because people are going to buy what they need. There's no sense in paying for features you won't use, especially if foregoing them saves you money. Talking from purely a price/performance perspective, this laptop is a great deal. I do wish all laptops were upgradeable, but I have to be practical here. Thing is, if BGA machines become a better financial decision for me in the future, I would (very begrudgingly) make the switch. It doesn't make sense to pay for an upgradeable laptop if you can't upgrade the stupid thing since nobody makes parts for it (the alienware Area 51m is a prime example of this). Also, failure rates on hardware components these days are so low that they're essentially a non-issue for the majority of people during the typical lifetime of a laptop like this. I will keep going with LGA laptops as long as I can, but I do not have infinite money at my disposal, and will therefore go with whatever laptop meets my needs and makes the most financial sense to me. I went with my X170 because it's the only laptop I know of from the current few generations that can handle a full load on the CPU and GPU simultaneously for a combined load of 440 watts, and it can handle that indefinitely just like a desktop since it basically is one. I require that. If I didn't, I'd probably have snagged up this Lenovo Legion 7 instead. Middle school me would've been ecstatic for such a deal on such processing power.
  14. Clamibot
    I'm glad to see how far Lenovo has come with their gaming laptops. My first gaming laptop was a Lenovo Y510P, and that thing is a piece of crap. I've kept up with Lenovo's developments in this department, and their newer gaming laptops appear to be far better in terms of build quality and functionality. @jaybee83 Yeah I'm not a fan of BGA either, but it does have its place. Thing is, this deal is very enticing because of how much processing power you get for the price. If all someone is going to use their laptop for is gaming, this laptop fits the bill nicely, even for high framerate gaming. This thing is $900 cheaper than the amount I've spent in total on my fully decked out Clevo X170SM-G. Whether this laptop is good or not really depends on your needs. For someone who needs an upgrade very often (once every 2-3 years) or for a casual user, it's probably a financially smarter decision to just get a new system whenever a deal like this presents itself. GPU upgrades on upgradeable laptops are very expensive, so it doesn't make sense to spend lots of money on an upgrade when an entirely new system can be had for the same amount, or for an extra few hundred dollars. Likewise, another problem with the upgradeability point of the X170 is that it's moot if the buyer never takes advantage of it, so laptops like this Lenovo Legion 7 make more sense for people who'd be better off getting an entirely new system when they need an upgrade since they need an upgrade on every part anyway. There's also the usage case like I mentioned before. This laptop is purely for gaming. It offers a little more GPU processing power than my X170, so it would match or beat my X170 in anything GPU bound, which is the category most games would fall into. However in anything CPU bound, my X170 would destroy this laptop as the CPU in my laptop is much more powerful than the one in this laptop. Then you also have some games (like the Watch Dogs series) that heavily stress both the CPU and GPU at the same time, which is another case my X170 destroys pretty much all other laptops in. So to sum it up, whether this laptop is worth it or not depends on your upgrade habits, intended use case, and the types of games you play. For me personally, this laptop isn't good, but it's probably good for most people looking to buy a gaming laptop, and I know it'd be a REALLY good laptop for some of my friends. I'm a power user and a high framerate gamer, and I require 144 fps in every game, so the Clevo X170SM-G I have is a much better fit for me. For someone like me who typically keeps the same system for a decade like me and only requires one GPU upgrade in that timespan, it's more worth it to get an upgradeable system and upgrade it halfway through its life cycle. For someone who upgrades really often or who upgrades once every 7-10 years, deals like this one are a boon. I'm an LGA enthusiast and will continue shilling for LGA machines, but I'm also going to take a pragmatic approach to things. Everything has it's place. I just wish there were more LGA options in the laptop space.
  15. Clamibot
    I love playing with static electricity. It's so much fun! What's super fun to do during Texas winters is to sit in a chair that is conducive to building up static electricity (like plastic chairs with a metal frame), rub your back in it, and then get up to shock people. My parents and I once had fun playing with static electricity at our nearest Nebraska Furniture Mart, and we had built up so much on the couch we were on that when the next set of people came to sit down on it, they got shocked 🤣. Despite my love for playing with static electricity, I have never once shorted out any of my computers or parts. I'm like a human capacitor, but I make sure to constantly discharge myself in the even I'm going to touch a computer. Funnily enough, I've never experienced a shock strong enough to actually hurt me. Shocks like what Jay showed in that video are merely tingles to me. I have much fun shocking my friends during the winter time.
  16. Clamibot
    In my experience, Phobya Nanogrease Extreme is the best thermal paste. It doesn't degrade and doesn't pump out. Additionally, it's more thermally conductive than almost all other thermal pastes. Pretty much the only better TIM is liquid metal. I hear Thermalright TFX is similar to Nanogrease, but I'm sticking to Nanogrease since I've used it and it has a proven track record (for me personally) of yielding excellent temps. I can't confirm if TFX is like Nanogrease since I've never used it. I've used Arctic MX-4, Thermaly Grizzly Kryonaut, and some Cooler Master paste (I'm not sure if it was MasterGel or something else). Nanogrease significantly outperforms all of them. I'm not sure why Arctic MX-4 is recommended by many others because it sucks. Temps are horrible with it. Kryonaut pumps out if you're doing direct die with it. If not, then it's fine, but there's still the problem of it burning up if subjected to temperatures above 80°C. Cooler Master's pastes seem good for longevity, but as I mentioned before Nanogrease is the best. I've never had to repaste Nanogrease either because it doesn't degrade or pump out. So in conclusion, go with Thermalright TFX or Phobya Nanogrease if you want to avoid liquid metal. @Mr. Fox can confirm the quality of Nanogrease as he's had very good experiences with Nanogrease as well.
  17. Clamibot
    1. That BIOS you speak of is called Dsanke BIOS (courtesy of brother Dsanke). I think some of the members from NBR who have flashed it onto their own laptops have joined NBT (this community), but I still haven't done a head count of everyone I knew from NBR who has joined this forum. The thread from NBR you're thinking of is this one: https://web.archive.org/web/20220125230413/http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/x170sm-unlocked-bios-here-plus-all-drivers.834740/. One of the direct download links for the BIOS is this link: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1GYY2EqzkIX_beeYs9L9bT8efRsWk4ObD/view (courtesy of brother JCordero31 from NBR, I don't think he's joined this forum yet) The instructions for flashing the BIOS are included in the thread archive link I mentioned, but I'll post them here anyway. 1. Run the Unlock.bat file with administrative rights 2. Answer the one question it ask with yes 3. Let it fully run its course it will take a few be patient. When its done it will notify you 4. Restart go into bios and reload defaults go back into bios after restart again 5. Unlock everything (whatever options you need) and boom enjoy (also courtesy of brother JCordero31) 2. I couldn't get Sound Blaster Atlas to work on my machine either. I ended up using this awesome tool called EqualizerAPO to manually tune the audio myself. You can create your own equalizer profiles using the configurator. 3. I think those unknown devices have something to do with Intel's dynamic platform power management framework. I made a digital copy of the driver disk that zTecpc gave me with this laptop. This should contain every driver you need. I have uploaded the driver suite to google drive and you can access them here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1v78phYDqCq5vTxhHbmmrmIYonU9cBv8B/view?usp=sharing
  18. Clamibot
    Yep, otherwise they'll never learn and just continue selling the same crappy products. The best way to stimulate innovation is for us to vote with our wallets. For thin devices, the max dGPU spec should really be an xx60 GPU. That's all they can reasonably accommodate. For higher end SKUs, a thicker chassis is needed to properly cool them. Limiting maximum power and forcing the GPU and CPU to share it is not a solution. Both should be allowed to draw as much power as they want for us to get the performance we want. These are called performance systems for a reason.
  19. Clamibot
    I never understood this either. The thinning of regular laptops makes sense since they wouldn't utilize all the space in a thick chassis anyway. The fact that performance laptops continue to get thinner is very annoying and is holding them back from performing (heh heh) the task they were meant to fulfill, which is to provide as much performance to the user as possible in an ultraportable package. We have long passed the time where performance laptops should've stopped getting thinner. The unrelenting trend to thinner and lighter performance laptops is causing them to hit a performance wall because of this artificial design constraint. Eventually you're gonna thermal throttle on stock settings because there's no getting around physics. Just to be clear, I have no problem with thin and light laptops in of themselves, I just have a problem with an artificial design constraint gimping performance in performance laptops. An artificial design contraint that interferes with a device's ability to function properly is stupid at best, and malicious at worst. Unless innovations in cooling tech allow the same cooling in thin and light laptops that we have now in desktops, performance laptops should stay thick. I personally prefer thick anyways since that gives the laptop a very solidly built, tough chassis that can take a beating. On a happier note, I am excited for the eluktronics liquid propulsion package though since other companies might create a similar solution if this one is successful. External water cooling is pretty much the only solution we have for properly cooling performance laptops in a market that is crazed for thin and light laptops, regardless of performance class. Imagine a thin and light DTR with a desktop CPU inside and an external 420mm radiator. Man would that be a dream.
  20. Clamibot
    If you want to clean the fans, the only way I know of to get access to them is to remove the heatsink, as the fans are screwed into the heatsink. The bottom fan covers are part of the heatsink themselves. Once you remove the heatsink, you can unscrew the fan cover screws, which will allow you to detach the actual fans from the heatsink. The fan cover screws are the smaller screws located on the edges of the fan shrouds. The fans are self cleaning, so it shouldn't be necessary to clean them yourself. Upon booting, the system revs the fans in reverse at max speed to shake out and blow out dust that has accumulated on the fans. Obviously this doesn't get everything, but it should be good enough. If you would still like to clean out the fans yourself to get them squeaky clean, the above instructions will help you achieve that.
  21. Clamibot
    I'm thinking of trying my hand at memory overclocking. Where would be a good place to start? I have 2 sticks of Crucial Ballistix 3200 MHz CL 16 RAM in my Clevo X170 and would like to finish the tuning to yield absolute max performance.
  22. Clamibot
    Depends on if you have the top end config or not and what your use case is. If you have a i9 10900K and RTX 2080 Super, then not really. It won't be a worthy upgrade unless you're doing something that requires significantly higher single core performance. If you have one of the lower end configs, then yes it could be a worthy upgrade.
  23. Clamibot
    Assuming you only use the performance cores, I think 150-180 watts is enough for 100% p-core performance across all p-cores. @win32asmguy Is there any option in the BIOS to disable the e-cores?
  24. Clamibot
    Thanks for taking the plunge for us! We really appreciate this information! Is that a 2.5 inch drive bay I see next to the RAM? (On the opposite side of the battery) That sucks that there's no MUX option. Hopefully someone can unlock that because some games run into a significant bottleneck in optimus mode, such as Watch Dogs 2 or anything else that is CPU bound. The framerate gains from switching to dGPU only mode are significant in those cases. Adding an option to switch between iGPU only, optimus, and dGPU only modes would be awesome. You could get amazing battery life when you need it, and maximum processing power when you need it. The CPU really needs another heatpipe, and the CPU fan should've been a dual vent design like the GPU fan. I hope this means we'll have a proper successor to the X170 series. It looks like we may have that happen given Clevo has made another 15 inch Intel LGA laptop. Is there any option to disable the e-cores in the BIOS?
  25. Clamibot
    Yeah I used to be part of that crowd before I became a proficient programmer. Once I started my master's in software engineering, I realized that multithreading isn't the holy grail of performance like it was being hyped to be. While more cores certainly helps and multithreading certainly helps a lot, they help with specific types of tasks; ones that can be parallelized. It's one of a myriad of ways to increase performance. Since some tasks are serial by nature, so we run into limits posed by Amdahl's law. This is why I put such an emphasis on single core performance when looking for a new CPU. In practice, 8 cores is where the performance gains stop for most games. Above that, you get performance regressions. Fortunately for me, I do have workloads that would benefit from more than 8 cores since I sometimes have to do video editing in addition to developing software, so the 10900K isn't wasted on me. I would definitely fall into the prosumer demographic. Intel's approach to appease the "MOAR CORES!" crowd with increasing the e-core count on their new CPUs is a bit disappointing. Amdahl's law will catch up with them very quickly. I wish instead they'd just keep improving the p-cores and leave it at that, because that's what really matters for most consumers. It'd be nice if they'd offer something like the 12900K, but without any e-cores, and with the same silicon quality on the p-cores that you'd get from the 12900K.
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