win32asmguy
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Everything posted by win32asmguy
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Added information about the fans above.
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I added a thread. Sorry I forgot to put in observations about fan noise.
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This is a place to discuss Lenovo's high end mobile workstation for 2022, which replaces the P15 Gen 2, P17 Gen 2 and T15g Gen 2. PSREF Link Pro/Con list vs. other options: HX CPU performance Thinkpad P16 - PL1/PL2 set at 157W. CBR23 22,700 observed. CPU thermal throttles with stock settings and factory paste job. P-core temperature deltas observed 12C. Overclocking/Undervolting is locked by default in the bios. e-cores cannot be disabled in the bios. Precision 7770 - PL1 85W/PL2 157W. GPU Performance Thinkpad P16 - No Geforce GPU option. RTX A4500 reported as 130W in Nvidia Control Panel, PSREF states 115W. Timespy Graphics ~9700. There may be a bug limiting the GPU performance, usually switching between High/Balanced power modes will fix it for now. Precision 7770 - RTX 3080 Ti - 140W Memory Thinkpad P16 - Uses DDR5 SODIMM modules, limited to 4000MT regardless of what is installed. High performance kits from Kingston/GSkill may be able to reduce latency over factory modules Precision 7770 - Uses proprietary CAMM module. Will add more gathered details later. Storage Thinkpad P16 - Two M.2 PCIe Gen 4 slots. Primary slot is connected via PCH and therefore shares DMI bandwidth to the CPU with all other devices (TB4, Wifi, USB) (note: I need to verify the second slot is not connected via the other CPU x4 Gen4 lanes) Precision 7770 - Need to verify information TB4 Thinkpad P16 - Video output only via Nvidia GPU if one is present. The TB4 PCIe lanes are connected to the PCH and share DMI bandwidth with other devices like storage, wifi, usb Precision 7770 - Video output via Nvidia or Intel selected via bios option. Fans Thinkpad P16 - They appear to always be running at a low speed, at least when plugged in via AC. No high pitched whistle and slow ramp up/down which can cause initial thermal throttling under a sustained load. No initial noise when the fans turn on. Precision 7770 - Reported to shut fans off fully at idle, and has a whoosh noise when they turn on. There is custom software to work around this effect and I am sure it is something that could be addressed in a BIOS/EC update eventually.
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It can burst as high as 157W but is still thermally limited. Sustained it can only maintain 85W. There is 12C core temperature deltas so a repaste could help. The A4500 should be 115W with 15W of dynamic boost. The Precision does have a superior hardware configuration for my use case as it allows running the internal display and both TB4 ports driven by the Intel GPU. On the P16 every video output is directly connected to the Nvidia GPU, other than the Internal display which has a MUX option in the bios. Sadly this information can be hard to discover on new models. I think the Precision can also run up to 64GB memory at 4800MT, but the Lenovo forces any memory configuration to 4000MT even with two memory slots unpopulated. Maybe some higher performance DDR5 SODIMMS can be used, at least, to reduce latency and get it closer to where we were at with high performance DDR4 SODIMMS.
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Yeah, maybe the coupon I used was not meant to be applied to that model. Its odd because the similar configured 7670 on the Dell US site is about 2000usd more expensive. My own testing.
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The Thinkpad P16 can reach 22,700 in Cinebench R23 with the 12900HX. The RTX A4500 is about 10%-15% slower in Timespy (~9700 Graphics Score) vs ~11,000 for the Precision 7770 3080Ti. It is also significantly less expensive as the config was 3200usd (including 2x32GB memory, 1TB SSD, 4k IPS) with a coupon. It sounds like the fan behavior may also be better, as there is no on/off cycle issues. It is easily just as quiet as the Dell 7560/7760. There is only two storage slots, but I guess those 8TB drives would work so you could atleast get 16TB in it which is not bad.
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They do have some great coupons for their workstations. For instance, the Thinkpad P16 can be had for ~$3200 after coupon with 12900HX, 64GB memory, 1TB ssd, RTX A4500 (pro version of 3070Ti), and a 4k 16:10 panel. Significantly cheaper than Dell/HP/MSI laptops that have Alder Lake and can take 128GB of memory. I also appreciate the Windows 10 support for that model, maybe the same for the Legion 7i Gen7 but it seems like most of the other manufacturers have dropped support for it.
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No worries. If anything it is not as bad an issue as drive slots randomly disappearing or a stability issue. I think the heatsink in your photo and the other review look not quite as uniformly shaped as the one on the service manual site: https://www.dell.com/support/manuals/en-us/precision-17-7770-laptop/precision_7770_sm/removing-the-heat-sink-for-discrete-graphics?guid=guid-de17304b-782a-4ed7-bddd-f2e6f92aaa57&lang=en-us Also, this may sound strange, but I have noticed in the past that there is a marked difference to the initial fan "startup grind/whoosh" depending on the brand of heatsink. Generally I have found that the Sunon models tend to be smoother sounding than the CCI models. Sadly it is somewhat of a lottery in which one you get, and this early in the production phase you cannot even order them as a spare part.
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It really does sound like poor heatsink contact with the CPU surface. If you are willing to repaste it may not hurt to try. You may also want to have them send a replacement cooling system. The pipes on the unit in your photo look like they may have excessive bending marks near the curve. If the sinter inside the pipe was broken from that it effect how well they move heat to the fin stack.
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The Zbook Fury 16 G9 has support for 128GB DDR5 SODIMMS and 4x NVMe drives, but it also only has 80W GPU TDP and I am unsure of the CPU TDP. Also no 3080Ti GPU or a 120hz display.
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Yeah I had a few general ideas: Conservative LLC settings for current bios; Something related to 128gb memory in use; Poor thermal contact with heatsink; Something related to all m.2 drive slots populated; Something related to windows 11 memory protection or such; Initial thermal throttling because fans need a minute to ramp to max; Poor silicon quality that would be consuming up to 50W more due to higher stock voltage curve or current leak.
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Wow thanks for checking all of that data. It is a great chip for the NH55! I should delid it as there is thermal throttling.
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That multicore score makes it seem like it is power limit throttling at 55W or so. Is it with the most recent bios installed?
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You probably need to contact their support team so they can whitelist the new card device id. Same thing was needed for the 3080 in the 7560 last year.
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The 12900ks is much higher at the start but lower at the top end.. Curve is as follows: 8x 0.914v 18x 0.914v 40x 0.969v 48x 1.159v 52x 1.354v 53x 1.354v 55x 1.354v 47x 1.327v Cache It did not run very well in the NH55 at stock. 135W at 33x P-cores, around 20400 in CBR23. I also tried the locked 12900 non K in the strix z690. It could not read VF curve and the SP rating was crazy high - SP135 or so. Also undervolting had no effect either with the locked chip. The NH-D15S is a pretty tight fit with the strix z690. The Corsair case I have does not help either as there is barely 1.5 inch clearance at the top to unhook those fan clips.
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Finally got some data for my 12900k that correlates why it can maintain higher clocks in the NH55JNNQ. It seems like even though its a poor SP rating, the VF points are lower at 4200mhz and below. I guess these numbers do not indicate how leaky it is, but it is something.
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It can be very good. Here is a review of a Precision 7760 and desktop 6800 XT via that adapter: https://egpu.io/forums/builds/2021-17-dell-precision-7760-rtx-a4000-11th8ch-rx6800xt-64gbps-m-2-adt-link-r43sg-4-0-win11/ He could have also used a 3080Ti but getting the Quadro dGPU working with a Geforce eGPU has driver conflicts. It would be better to have chosen the laptop 3080 gpu option or just no dedicated gpu at all from Dell's choices.
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Here is a Timespy benchmark of a 3080 Ti desktop card inside a Razer Core X eGPU connected via TB4 to the Precision 7560: https://www.3dmark.com/3dm/77926408? The other eGPU option is the ADT-Link R43SG 4.0 which can plug in through the bottom cover SSD door to the Gen4 M.2 slot and gives you the full 64Gbps. It is not as convenient as TB4 and you lose a M.2 storage slot but definitely the best option for bandwidth and latency. It will be great when we get a GPU benchmark result from @Aaron44126 so we can see how the internal Precision 7760 3080 Ti compares. It always is a trade off of convenience / power / price.
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Yep, it will be interesting to see how it compares with the gaming-focused HX laptops already out and the other workstation HX laptops. By chance do you have access to a TB4 device so we can get a topology report for the system via HWiNFO64? I am just curious if its PCIe lanes are via the CPU or PCH, similar to this:
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https://psref.lenovo.com/Product/ThinkPad/ThinkPad_P16_Gen_1 On the specs page it has a section for the displays. In theory they are all only made by a single vendor so they should have the same characteristics. I do think the 15.6 inch WQHD 240hz OLED in the MSI ge67hx was reported to have PWM in the notebook check review.
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I am not sure if it helps, but on the Thinkpad P16 it is advertised to have a similar spec OLED touch panel option with "DC Dimming" which usually implies no PWM.
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It sounds like yours is really close! Mine is still stuck in "Confirmed" so it will probably not arrive until mid-August if I had to guess.
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I think it would be easier to just get a TB3 eGPU instead, especially now that the mining craze is has died down. They work quite well when the system has no built in dedicated GPU and in a way are even more reliable than using a TB4 dock for connecting many displays.
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Yep that is a big difference between those 10900k chips. Its a shame that this metric tends to go unnoticed by most of the Clevo DTR resellers, and they force you to buy some kind of throw away processor regardless (unless it was sold by RJTech as a barebone). Maybe some people get lucky and are randomly shipped a great chip, but I otherwise feel its wasteful to pair a DTR with poor silicon, especially since its one of the few machines on the market where you CAN do something about it. I went ahead and ordered a Strix Z690 D4, LGA1700 bracket for my NH-D15S, and a second 120mm fan. I figure that way I can better compare things without having the NH55 specific limitations skewing results. Not sure if microcode injection is going to be possible for raptor lake if modded bioses cannot be flashed on the NH55, but maybe if Jaybee and Prema keep working at it they may find a way. Sadly I doubt I could ever get a modded bios from Prema for mine, as I bought it from Eurocom. It is stupid that they are the only North America reseller for the NH55J... their support also has stopped responding to emails about my open ticket for the wrong keyboard they sent. Not exactly happy with their service.
