Mr. Fox

9 minutes ago, Papusan said:

 

Some prefer better custom design over performance. Or maybe they think more vram will provide  more performance? Is more always more?🤔

 

Some RTX 5060 Tis sell for more than RTX 5070s!

 

As for the RTX 5060 Ti, the cards were launched yesterday afternoon. However, as is often the case, things are going in all directions on the premium card side . Indeed, some references sell for more than the  higher-class GPU . Yes, you read that right, RTX 5060 Tis sell for more than some RTX 5070s!

Stupidity is always with us, and in surplus quantities.

Maybe we can sell them a link to download more VRAM.

5 minutes ago, electrosoft said:

I just went, "that is crazy" when I read it earlier over on the forums. I have zero problems with people reselling their items and getting top dollar for them (call it scalping if you want), but buying specifically for reselling especially among the hardware community? For someone who is a firm proponent of "let the market ride as is," that just sits wrong with me a bit.

Exactly... very similar thoughts here... https://www.overclock.net/posts/29456680/

Just now, Mr. Fox said:

Well, technically it is none of our business what people do with things we sell them after the sale. But still, it's definitely part of the intent buying and selling here that you are helping a fellow enthusiast acquire things they want that are either hard to find or absurdly overpriced out in the wild. I'd be lying if I did not admit that part of it is you don't have silly eBay fees and predatory and nefarious double-taxation of products that taxes were already paid when purchased new, but it is absolutely true that when I sell items here it is with the hope that it will be a blessing to someone that would otherwise not be able to buy it due to availability or financially adverse reasons.

2 hours ago, jaybee83 said:

 

LOL great timing with me planning to put up my 4090 tomorrow 😄 

Don't sell it on eButt. Sell it at overclock.net and pay nothing in fees to them and without risk of getting scammed.

Fun fact. The 4090 that I sold has already been re-sold for $500 more. I sold it for $1500 (what I paid for it new) and Mr. Nguyen from overclock.net sold it immediately (same day he got it) for $2000. Check it out. If I ever see him complaining about scalpers, I am going to call him out as one, LOL. That's pretty scummy, IMHO. I wonder if the person that bought it knows how that played out.

https://www.overclock.net/posts/29456490/

1 hour ago, jaybee83 said:

 

yep saw that drop during benching yesterday, changelog included a  frigging TON of bugfixes specifically for 50 series. will update asap 🙂

 

some more 5090 Suprim insights:

- highest core temp ive seen thus far was 68C in Alan Wake 2 pathtracing maxed out in 4K without DLSS/FG. card still super quite, insane

- vRAM OC at +3000 for 34Gbps confirmed stable via GPU Memtest for 1hour. max VRam temp. 64C during stress test.

- currently checking for core OC, happy to report that EVGA PX1 does not have any troubles applying +100 on the voltage slider. with AB lots of reports that the card would drop to base clocks and show funky behaviour. havent seen this with PX1, so all good.

- +300 core oc looks stable thus far, but not quite done with stability testing yet, about halfway through. initial quick n dirty core oc only locked up the card once i reached +500 😄 should be interesting haha

- need to do some more extensive voltage monitoring to determine typical range for my particular sample. initial impressions in alan wake 2 yesterday showed anywhere between 1.00 and 1.25V (voltage slide maxed, power pegged at 600W+). but ofc that depends on the application tested.

 

will keep u guys posted 🙂 

I have always preferred PX1. Much better for GPU overclocking than Afterburner. Also give ASUS GPU Tweak III a try. The GUI is goofy (A$$zeus is frequently tacky with their aesthetics) but it usually works well for me when Afterburner missed the mark. There is an option in settings to enhance overclock limits.

35 minutes ago, ssj92 said:

Do you have a pic or link to the shunt mod? I'd love 450w per gpu. 

 

Right now SLI is not working because the motherboard doesn't have SLI certificate. I tried doing dsdt editing to inject some but didn't work yet. I do have one other method left to try which may work so hoping to get SLI up and running soon. 

 

The 20 series are last to support true SLI unlike 30 series so they should work in all games that support SLI

That is such a scam and a racket needing an SLI certificate. Really goes to show what a scummy, money-grubbing bunch of control freaks the Green Goblin is.

10 hours ago, jaybee83 said:

on this note @Mr. Fox since im sure u have a very comprehensive list of benchmark tools: can you recommend and standalone gpu benchmarks outside of the usual suspects? preferably with a basis in an actual game, that would be grand 🙂 

I do not like some of these games (noted with *) and either do not own them because they have a standalone benchmark or I bought them only for their built-in benchmark. Some of these are old, but are good for testing raster performance. In no particular order, and by no means is it an all-inclusive list... just what popped into my head.

EZ Bench

GameTechBench

Crysis/Crysis Remastered

Wolfenstein Youngblood

Gears of War (all of them)

Far Cry New Dawn

Horizon Zero Dawn

Bright Memory Infinite

Resident Evil 5/6

Shadow of the Tomb Raider

Rise of the Tomb Raider

Monster Hunter Wilds*

Black Myth Wukong*

Final Fantasy (all)*

Cyberpunk 2077

Metro (all of them)

Sniper Elite (all of them)

Hitman Absolution

Just Cause (all of them)

Dune Awakening

Alien: Isolation

Borderlands 2/3

Call of Juarez

Deus Ex: Mankind Divided

Sleeping Dogs*

Still waiting for radiators to finish the job on the O11D XL. For now using the XT45 1080 Nova.

But, it's alive and well.

22 minutes ago, Papusan said:

 

Already at $600 USD you have crossed the line for proper pricing for a high end boards. Everything above this is the greed tax. Remember you can still buy lower end boards below $200. $600 should be max. And even that is an awful price to pay for play.

 

I'm sure Asus charge +$100 for the so called innovative 3D Vapor Chamber heatsink for M.2 SSDs

I agree 100%. That's why I made that choice. Some features are valuable, but there is no reason for a $800, $1000 or more expensive motherboard to exist if it doesn't offer something valuable and useful beyond what is already present on a motherboard that costs approximately half as much. Arguably, the sub-$500 AORUS Master offers more because it isn't all screwed up in terms of basic functionality like those with the ROG fanboy tariff attached to it. You can actually use the slots without castrating the GPU. That should be normal, not abnormal, LOL. This is just one of many examples that demonstrate how the people making product design decisions and product pricing are totally out of their minds, if not just plain stupid. Being broken by design and grossly overpriced is too easily forgiven by fanbois.

7 minutes ago, Papusan said:

Look at this... Only $1400. This is on level with Nvidia's perversity. Disgusting.

 

https://videocardz.com/newz/asus-officially-announces-rog-crosshair-x870e-extreme-motherboard-costs-1400-in-china

Totally absurd. And, I would bet that it won't overclock the CPU or RAM any better than a B850 board or a cheap X870 does. So, what is a person paying for? Something filled with worthless gimmicks that simply takes up extra space because it is larger than necessary? It makes no sense whatsoever in terms of performance or function. Just a place to foolishly spend money for nothing meaningful in return. Unless one finds value in demonstrating their lack of financial inteliigence to everyone that knows how much they spent on it. "Wheee, look at me! I love to spend lots of money on parts that work the same as the cheaps ones. I'm so special. Mama even said so."

1 hour ago, tps3443 said:

I've eased up a lot on the whole extreme overclocking. 

The newest CPUs and GPUs don't really contribute as much to that passion as they used to. In some ways we are going backwards. Stock performance is better than ever and overclocking about as lackluster as I have ever seen. There's no joy in that for overclocking enthusiasts and not much of a reason to purchase products that are made that way.

1 minute ago, jaybee83 said:

5090 installed and purring smooooooooooothly 🙂

 

first up: all ROPs present and PCIe 5.0 x16 working as intended, PHEW! dont worry about the clocks, fiddling around with powersaving profile for simple desktop usage.

 

 

next up: Id never thought Id see the day where my Suprim 4090 seems SMALL, THING AND LIGHT 😄 check out these CHONKERS! 5090 always on top

 

 

I really wish they wouldve sticked with the three slot backplate... why would anyone do a dual backplate on a 4+ slot brock of a gpu?!?! 🥸

 

anyways, time for some stock benches to get a baseline vs. my oced 4090!

Beautiful GPU. Looks like a Suprim is supposed to look. Congrats, Brother @jaybee83

On 4/12/2025 at 8:52 AM, johnksss said:

How much are you selling the Mora Radiator for?

Sorry for the delayed text message. Had a busy weekend. I know you are busy with work, so just reply to the text when it is convenient. No rush.

17 hours ago, Papusan said:

Close to $1500 USD extra doesn't bring much extra. Only a much deeper hole in your wallet. And the cheapo sag bracket and the kids ruler with golden paint that come in the Asus box give you zero value.  

 

There is no real value in the AIB cards except for the fact that they are not the inferior FE design with separate parts cobbled together with cables like a stinking turdbook. The FE doesn't look bad and the form factor is useful for small builds, but I really despise the way the card is put together. Whatever person or group designed it as they did were taking some kind of scary drugs. It's quite the abortion. Everything is gimped, so even the expensive AIB cards are not offering anything in terms of performance. Even if they did offer enhanced performance, the difference is not in scale with the added cost.

So, I made some hard decisions this weekend. Not only getting rid of external cooling loops and going down to just two desktops (primarly because of lack of space and my growing sense of claustrophobia the congested workspace is causing), but I also cancelled the X870E Apex order. The more I have compared differences between the all of the AM5 boards I have or did have (X670E Gene, X870E Carbon, X870E Taichi and B850 AORUS Elite) the more it seems like there is little or no differences in performance or overclocking potential. The CPU runs like the CPU is going to run and it doesn't care what motherboard it is installed in. Ryzen is a solid product, but limited by design and having a more robust motherboard makes hardly any difference in CPU overclocking, and minimal difference in RAM overclocking. This is in stark contrast to Intel, where it really does seem to make a big difference having a better motherboard.

So, the B850 board got a 9600X dropped in it yesterday with some cheap G.SKILL Flare DDR5-6000 (Samsung IC) I had in my spare parts and the GTX 1080 Strix. It is going to my grand daughters. It runs like a top. With the EK Nucleus AIO it maxed out at like 71°C in Cinebench with PBO 200 offset and CO 25 and a -0.050V vCore offset and maximum vdroop enabled. Like 1.075V on vCore under full title load. They will be in heaven with the upgrade over the X79/RX 580 build I gave to them not long ago. Plus, now they will both be able to play with their friends online at the same time. They will just have to fight over who uses the better rig, LOL.

I ordered an X870E AORUS Master because: (1) it has asychronous BCLK like the better A$$zeus motherboards that cost a WHOLE LOT more than the Master, and (2) it is the only logical option for PCIe bifurcation out of all of the models that exist. The only better option is the Godlike, but its ungodly price is just absurd and unacceptable. ALL (100%) of the A$$zeus ROG boards are totally effed up. I can fill all three of the PCIe X16 slots withoutout the GPU slot getting cut to X8. You cannot do that with A$$zeus crap boards because the engineers of the ROG boards were drunk or taking mind-altering drugs at the time they designed them. The two extra X16 slots on the AORUS Master are run off of the two chipsets and have no effect on the CPU lanes feeding the GPU. The middle X16 slot is PCIe 4.0 X4 and the bottom X16 slot is PCIe 3.0 X4. This is how ASUS should have done it. It's a shame how they botched thing up on all X870E boards. Idiots.

I will be building using the Master in the O11D XL EVO case with the new radiators I purchased. It will have the 4090 Suprim and liquid cooled RAM. The Gene will stay in the Antec C8 and will host the air-cooled 9070 XT.

As as side note, I have a bad feeling about the X870E Apex. Its launch has been pushed out multiple times (at least three times, maybe more) and the $800 pre-order price probably would not be honored even if and when it eventually is released. It was already not worth $800. Factor in the screwed up PCIe bifurcation and it's just not a good product and not worth owning IMHO. The PCIe bifurcation issues it has make it unacceptable. I also do not like the GPU release idea on the new A$$zeus boards. The release button is better, even if they managed to fix the GPU contact finger damage the original design was causing. I saw it listed for $1,999 USD on the US A$$zeus web store. They can shove that up their tailpipe and break it off. That's about $1,200 more than I would pay for it. Kiss my butt ROG scumbags.

4 minutes ago, electrosoft said:

Shipped and sold by Amazon for Prime members but look at that price plus a two week+ lead time...

 

It will take them a couple of weeks to find a freight container or semi-trailer full of GPUs to steal before they have stock available. Don't be so impatient.  😉

6 hours ago, johnksss said:

How much are you selling the Mora Radiator for?

I haven't given it much thought, Brother John. I just finished cleaning it up and flushing it out and letting it dry. It will probably be fairly expensive to ship it. Let me give it some thought and I will text you. 

2 hours ago, tps3443 said:

The motherboard is probably going to be diminishing return item for sure. But of course it’s still awesome. You probably already have peak performance though.

Your build is about like what I did. I stepped way back from the XOC extreme master mega cooler power builds lol. I got my fill of it. I wanted a nice quiet reliable rig that was stable and just worked. If I ever want to go back, I have my test bench and chiller waiting. I’m definitely happy with my upcoming home electricity bill a whopping $158 dollars for an entire month. 🤯 

 

Anyways, I really like my recent build, and I’m glad I finally found a case that works for me. But I will say be careful. $2,500 can go quick on these little PC parts. Oh my goodness. My build turned in to a money pit real quick ordering little bits here and there. If I could have had a larger budget, I would have gone full insano with it LOL. But, I’m going to keep adding to it slowly. 
 

Also, let me know how those German Watercool radiators perform. Which ones did you get?

I bought two of these. https://www.titanrig.com/watercool-heatkiller-360-l-radiator-black-0330wc013201on.html and one of these to connect the top one to the bottom one. https://www.titanrig.com/alphacool-nexxxos-xt45-full-copper-x-flow-radiator-360mm-triple-fan-black-0330ac014501on.html and I ordered $200 (12 more) of these awesome fans. They're my favorite. Almost as good as P12 MAX but I think made better. They weigh a ton. The last two 3-packs I purchased were insanely good. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0DJ45JWL1?th=1 I wish they made an option for reverse blades.

As far as the motherboard goes and whether or not it will be awesome, that's the thing. It is probably NOT AWESOME. I am skeptical and concerned it is going to be totally a screwed up POS. The totally botched up PCIe lane allocation would make it hard for me to view it as a good product. If it was going to turn out right, why the hell has the release been pushed out so many times. It's a bad sign. And, it is the only 2-DIMM board. Really sucks how all of the dumba$$ motherboard OEMs crank out tons of 4-DIMM feces.

The problem is, nothing new is awesome. Everything new new is pretty much rubbish, extremely overpriced, or even worse, extremely overpriced trash. I don't believe the people running the show and calling the shots in the PC tech development realm have anything but dung for brains now. A bunch of idiot monkeys trying to molest a football because their mama said no to it. Now that they have their idiot AI crap to chase, they've lost their minds and have themselves become "artifically intelligent" LOL.

One of the pluses and minuses of Ryzen is that almost everyone has peak performance, whether it is good or not. There isn't much difference between silicon samples, performance is muted and they're generally not very good at overclocking. Performance is strong, but it's pretty much a belly-button product wearing a halo and pretending to be something special. Unless you're a really unlucky person, or an exceptionally lucky fellow, you're going to be a member of the normal club. Everyone gets a trophy for participating. The only reason I own one is that it's not Core Ultra chiplet smartphone core trash.

58 minutes ago, jaybee83 said:

 

soooo.....whats the plan for the new budget? 😁

 

1-2 more days of benching and then the 5090 goes into my system 🙂 

Trying to hang onto the money for my X870E Apex pre-order. That is, assuming the pre-order price remains the same. If not I may cancel it. Thinking about cancelling it anyhow. I doubt it will give me anything that that I don't already have in terms of performance with either the X670E Gene or B850 AORUS Elite (which performs almost the same as the Gene). So, I am starting to doubt that is is going to deliver enough bang for buck. In spite of the retarded $800 price tag it looks as though A$$zeus totally screwed up the PCIe lane allocation and wasted resources on things that don't matter, like USB4 and WiF7 and didn't include something useful like a slimSAS port. It's got a bunch or worthless PCIe slots that are only usable if you are OK with the GPU getting castrated to 50% (X8) bandwidth. The clowns at A$$zeu are truly idiots. About the only way I would be able to use it the way I want to is to buy an NVMe to PCIe X4 riser with a long cable to run my Sabrent quad NVMe card. Give up one NVMe slot and add four. 

I ordered a second Thermal Grizzly Mycro direct die block so I will be ready when I delid the second 9950X. I like that better than the TG IHS. I also ordered bunch of high CFM/high pressure fans, two Heatkiller radiators and an Alphacool X-Flow radiator to go inside of the O11D XL EVO case. I am going to sell the MORA radiator and go with an all-internal build in that case since it has tons of room for push-pull in every spot. The X-Flow will go in the back panel and connect the top and bottom radiators. I am going to use the EK manifold with QDC fittings at one end and ball valves at input side so if I want to use the chiller I can simply close the ball valves on the internal system to bypass radiators and plug in the QDC fittings from the chiller lines.

1 hour ago, tps3443 said:

Coincidentally just enough for a 5090! LOL 🤩

1 hour ago, electrosoft said:

Congrats brother!

 

I thought the same thing. 🤣

It is enough but I don't want one. I can think of a lot of better ways to spend $2500. NVIDIA can kiss my butt. 

So, the Gigabyte 4090 Gaming OC is on its way to the new owner and the Apex and 14900KS was delivered to its new owner today. Net on the sale of those parts was $2500. Not too shabby. I sold the GPU for what I paid for it new, not counting the waterblock.

20 minutes ago, Papusan said:

 

Older Fire Strike don't scale well with loads of cores. Either try disable half of the cores or try disable HT. 

18 minutes ago, tps3443 said:

Yes this is a mess! 


 

If you do what @Papusan suggested probably everything, including physics and combined test, will increase. With 13900/14900K/KF/KS you have to drop down to 29 total threads to get the best results. So, disabling 3 e-cores on that CPU.

37 minutes ago, Papusan said:

 

The faster AMD can get rids of 9070 the better. This SKU should have never  seen the light. And same time they should reduce the MSRP for 9070XT down to same level as for 9070. That would help AMD to take over the whole mid end graphics cards. 

 

The RX 9070 could be discontinued, first in China, then in the rest of the world. What reasons does AMD have for this?

Yeah, the non-XT is pretty silly. Speaking of that, this was a pretty entertaining video.

34 minutes ago, tps3443 said:

5090 was supposed to be 25% more expensive than 4090, but its definitely averaging 50% faster for me than my 4090. It’s a really good improvement! Sometimes more than that. 
 

Sometimes it’s abnormally large jump. Especially VR or MSFS. I think it’s just that the 4090 is already brutally fast and very expensive. So it’s not required to upgrade. 4090 has Frame Gen already and 24GB vram. So it’s good enough to hang on to. 
 

 

I totally get where you are coming from and it is a valid perspective in your case. There is not much relevance to me at this point. I'm generally not even trying to do my benching hobby any more at this point because of the shenanigans that have made it a sport where winners are chosen and predestined. They are given access to things nobody else has access to, won't share any of it (possibly contractually forbidden to in some cases) and some of them even get everything for free. I don't game enough to justify blowing a gigantic wad of cash on a 5090 that would provide me with no practical benefit. I would only buy it for benching and it's too expensive for such a limited use in a situation that attempting to win is just a frustrating exercise in futility.

7 minutes ago, tps3443 said:

VULC will probably still want it. GPU’s are like 3-5K there. For a 4090 or 5090. So I’m sure even if shipping is $200 it’s probably still a bargain lol. Than Nguyen already has a 5080, he wants to sell it and go back to a 4090. He says “5080 sucks 4090 is far superior” 😂

VULC just backed out. He just messaged me. The shipping was just absurd. I don't blame him. I would never pay as much for shipping... super stupid prices. I think he found a Strix 4090 in AUS.

I am surprised Thanh Nguyen did not already know that. If you own a 4090 then 5080 is a performance downgrade. Only 5090 is an upgrade. Unfortunately, not as big of an upgrade as the price difference suggests that it should be. For a one-third higher price I would expect to see at least one-third higher performance across the board.

I know that @electrosoftand @tps3443 saw my post at overclock.net about possibly selling my 4090 Gaming OC GPU to @VULC. We got stuck at the shipping cost. I had no idea it cost so much to ship to Australia. Very weird... 2x to 3x more than shipping to UK, Germany, Finland, Saudi Arabia and other places I have shipped to. Weird that Australia is so crazy high. UPS and USPS are about $200, but FedEx and DHL are more than double that. Crazy.

@Thanh Nguyen is also messaging me asking about buying it. I will put it out here in case @Clamibot or @Reciever or @Rage Set or anyone else is interested if the AUS shipping ends up being a deal-breaker.

21 minutes ago, jaybee83 said:

 

what are your SP ratings? and what kind of temp drop did u see after delid and the TG IHS?

This CPU was already delidded and was running bare die. I will do a comparison with stock vs TG IHS after I delid the second one.

Here are the SP ratings:

Yup, the SP118 CPU runs 2200 FCLK no problem in the Gene, same as it did in the B850 AORUS. So, a point lower SP rating and better FCLK.

So, the CPU that was in the Gene has a higher SP rating but can't boot 2200 FCLK. I moved the delidded 9950X from the Gene to the AORUS B850 and it runs like a top, but won't boot 2200 FCLK in that motherboard either. What is weird, I can run the lower SP-rated 9950X at 2200 and CO 30 on CCX0 and 25 on CCX1, but I couldn't do more that 20/10 on the higher SP-rated CPU. So, I am thinking the SP-rating is a worthless joke on AMD and means nothing whatsoever. Seems like it.

Now I will see how well the not-delidded CPU that can run 2200 FCLK tunes up in the Gene. I'll probably decapitate it this weekend.

Anyhoow... this is the delidded CPU using a Thermal Grizzly performance IHS and the EK Nucleus CR360 Dark AIO in the B850 board. About 1,000 points higher on Cinebench and a whole lot cooler because of the delid (as expected).

13 hours ago, Reciever said:

Found some now ancient but still NIB arctic accelero extreme 9800 coolers on performance pc's so naturally since they were 15 USD each I bought 2.

 

Any of you whose been around the block for some time, any recommendation for which GTX 9800 to seek out for benchmarking? 

That was too long ago for me to remember, LOL. Those were awesome air coolers though. I can't believe they were so inexpensive. Didn't they fit a whole bunch of GPUs or were they model-specific? I can vagely remember they were fairly universal because most GPUs had a common "reference" PCB design.

2 hours ago, jaybee83 said:

helloooooooooooooooooooo 😎 card is at the shop, package prepared 😁

 

edit: aaaaaaaaand shipped! 🙂 5090 trainwreck, here i come 😄 

 

@Papusan any specific drivers ud recommend to minimize the damage? 😛 

Congratulations, brother.