Mr. Fox

I know that @electrosoftand @tps3443 saw my post at overclock.net about possibly selling my 4090 Gaming OC GPU to @VULC. We got stuck at the shipping cost. I had no idea it cost so much to ship to Australia. Very weird... 2x to 3x more than shipping to UK, Germany, Finland, Saudi Arabia and other places I have shipped to. Weird that Australia is so crazy high. UPS and USPS are about $200, but FedEx and DHL are more than double that. Crazy. @Thanh Nguyen is also messaging me asking about buying it. I will put it out here in case @Clamibot or @Reciever or @Rage Set or anyone else is interested if the AUS shipping ends up being a deal-breaker.

This CPU was already delidded and was running bare die. I will do a comparison with stock vs TG IHS after I delid the second one. Here are the SP ratings: Yup, the SP118 CPU runs 2200 FCLK no problem in the Gene, same as it did in the B850 AORUS. So, a point lower SP rating and better FCLK.

So, the CPU that was in the Gene has a higher SP rating but can't boot 2200 FCLK. I moved the delidded 9950X from the Gene to the AORUS B850 and it runs like a top, but won't boot 2200 FCLK in that motherboard either. What is weird, I can run the lower SP-rated 9950X at 2200 and CO 30 on CCX0 and 25 on CCX1, but I couldn't do more that 20/10 on the higher SP-rated CPU. So, I am thinking the SP-rating is a worthless joke on AMD and means nothing whatsoever. Seems like it. Now I will see how well the not-delidded CPU that can run 2200 FCLK tunes up in the Gene. I'll probably decapitate it this weekend. Anyhoow... this is the delidded CPU using a Thermal Grizzly performance IHS and the EK Nucleus CR360 Dark AIO in the B850 board. About 1,000 points higher on Cinebench and a whole lot cooler because of the delid (as expected).

That was too long ago for me to remember, LOL. Those were awesome air coolers though. I can't believe they were so inexpensive. Didn't they fit a whole bunch of GPUs or were they model-specific? I can vagely remember they were fairly universal because most GPUs had a common "reference" PCB design. Congratulations, brother.

And, 5090 should be $2000 or less for standard AIB and $1500-$1800 for FE, and $2200-$2400 for the top tier enthusiast GPUs. But it's not. It's more grossly overpriced and a poorer value than anything else. It further compounds the problem that performance doesn't scale in measure equal to or greater than the price gap compared to anything else. I think the difference here is the price for NVIDIA's best GPU is truly stupifying and requires a disconnect from logic. AMD's best, while not nearly as good, is as good as it needs to be for most people, and it doesn't require checking your brain at the door or dumping as much money as a month's take-home wages for many of the people that would buy it, or do buy it (but shouldn't) using credit and end up paying an even more ungodly sum with interest tacked onto their purchase. Most people can find a way to purchase a 9070 XT without sacrificing the soul of their firstborn, selling internal organs or having to be checked for STDs afterward. Everything is overpriced, a poor value, and nothing is actually worth the sticker price. Price gouging and scalping just adds insult to injury. The hate against NVIDIA is not only real, but earned and deserved. AMD is just being scummy and opportunistically doing what NVIDIA's actions allow them to get away with. NVIDIA calls all of the shots for everyone, but doesn't care about anyone that their actions affect. It seems like lately NVIDIA doesn't even care about their own reputation, the quality of their overpriced products, or the quality of their product support.

If I decide to keep the B850 build I may just get a cheap Zen 5 CPU with 6 or 8 cores. I was looking online and these are generally between $150-$250 depending on how weak a CPU a person is willing to accept. I may also just sell one of my 4090's, move the 9070 XT into the C8/Gene build and use that for work, buy a cheap Zen 5 CPU and give it one of my kids with the Strix 1080 installed. The X79 Gene build that I gave to my son-in-law was confiscated by my grand daughters so maybe I will bless him with it. Edit: I wasn't sure I liked how this turned out, but as I am sitting here looking at it while working, I think I do. It is growing on me. Perhaps my reservation was jaded by the fact that I used PrimoChill LRT tubing instead of the Mayhems (which is what I generally use) and it was a real pain in the butt. It is very hard and takes tremendous force to get the tubing to slip over the compression fitting barb. It is also very stiff and inflexible. I have been using the Mayhems for a very long time and it is much softer and more flexible. Wile the LRT tubing is exceptionally clear and it looks good, I don't think I am going to buy that again. It made building it take longer and required extra effort because of how unweildy the LRT tubing is.

The Green Goblin has lost its way.

Thank you. That industrial look is my favorite. Yup, down to two rigs, at least until (if) the X870E Apex ships. I don't know if I will keep the B850 board currently powering my work PC, but probably will. It's pretty solid and it was very inexpensive. The Antec Constellation C8 is an excellent case, but borderline too small. For an AIO (or even dual AIO for CPU and GPU) the C8 is perfect. Custom loops just take up a lot of space. The external cooling loop is so much easier and is case-agnostic. Doing the bottom radiator in push/pull and fitting the distribution manifold was quite a challenge. Nothing is difficult to access, but the volume is limiting. The O11D XL EVO doesn't seem that much larger looking at it, but it is significantly larger in ways that matter. Lian Li was smart to involve @der8auer in the engineering of it. I think going forward that is the only case I am going to purchase. It's not perfect, but very close. Super easy to build a custom loop inside of it without having to cut so many corners to get things to fit. The O11D XL EVO is waiting for its next victim. It was hard forcing myself to sell the Z790 Apex and 14900KS, but I'm sure the new owner will love it as much as I did. Computers are like kids. You have to learn to let them go when they get older.

Transformation complete. All self-contained. Gene seems happy with the new work environment.

Sold the Apex and 14900KS. On it's way to the new owner in Kansas as soon as UPS Store opens at 11:00 AM. Now I have to decide if I am going to sell the MO-RA and chiller setup or keep them. I don't really want to sell them, but I might find it easier to give up my overclocking/benching hobby if the temptation they present is eliminated. Decisions, decisions.

The 9070 XT was my way of participating in the NVIDIA revenge. Exactly the same was true with the Ryzen builds... Intel revenge. It wasn't because I believe anything AMD sells is a great product. Doing it by myself would not matter, but I know I did not act alone. Doing my small part to bring the hurt for bad behavior. If enough continue to do it, death by 1,000 paper cuts. They will pay attention if enough people stick to their guns. The Apex is because I hate 4-DIMM motherboards. They universally suck and 2-DIMM options are so rare. I do not believe the Apex is going to make the 9950X overclock any better. I think it may help with the mediocre Ryzen memory performance. I might be able to get a bit higher on the memory overclock. If all I wanted is something mainstream and cheap to run stock and be super-reliable, I already have that in the B850 Gigabutt Elite. The 5090 gave me pause because the price is so over-the-top and utterly ludicrous, and so totally out of scope with the performance to price, that I just can't embrace the idea that it is a product actually worth purchasing at this point. The temptation to have one certainly exists, but the desire to pay $1,000+ extra for so little benefit is what makes it so difficult to consider. The massive increase in price over 4090 is not congruent with the relatively small increase in performance. I can see why everyone that bought one would want it, but I can't see the logic in what it costs. If you disable DLSS and look at bare metal performance, there is a lot of smoke and mirror nonsense in play to help prop up the idiotic price. I know FE cards are not quite as insanely overpriced, but I really do despise them, and the 5090 FE more than any previous model. For one of the same reasons I have no interest in turdbooks, I have no desire to own a 5090 FE. I hold the product in contempt based on how it is designed. I doubt that would change even if I could buy one for $1500. I consider it a piece of trash based on design alone, just like a turdbook.

Unless you are a garbage collector. ASUS always gives us things we don't care about for free, LOL. Don't forget the stickers for the children, and the stupid things like cardboard coasters and key rings. You should never sell it. If you do, then maybe sell it to me.

I would not sell either of my 4090's for less than what I paid for them brand new. Not because they were worth what I paid for them. They were not. But, they sell for more than what they are worth... like everything else just about. Everything in PC tech now is a poor value. Nothing is worth what it sells for. The world is overrun by idiots that are fools with their money. I'm one of those idiots, but trying to stop being one of them.

https://www.overclock.net/threads/z790-apex-white-a04-and-sp108-14900ks.1815710/?post_id=29451383#post-29451383

Yeah that Herculx GPU support is so tacky-looking, LOL. The first time I saw it I think I actually did laugh out loud at how obnoxious and garish it is. A face that only a mother fanboy could love. It screams "look at me... I'm so special" and that soothes the souls of the A$$zeus fanbois. There isn't any downside to using the 12VHPWR pigtail other than the poor aesthetic and added bulk. Using it really negates the one obscure and unimportant benefit that 12VHPWR offered; which was easier and cleaner cable management due to the reduced bulk. The most logical reason to use it would be to make it more difficult for the slimeball manufacturers to make lame excuses for denying a warranty claim if it melts due to the inherent engineering defects and reliability inferiority of the 12VHPWR abortion.

Congratsl. That's a big question to answer because of the ginormous price tag. Even in your cavernous case it looks huge. I am almost positive that would not fit in the Air Max 903 case. Some people think/complain the 903 is a big case, LOL. It's definitely not. It's very nice. It is small to a fault that is enough that I now regret purchasing it. Definitely only suitable for air cooler and AIO jockeys. I have already tried to figure a way to put a custom loop for CPU-only inside of it and there is just no good place for pump or reservoir to mount. The good thing about it is that it was dirt cheap. It won't be a loss worth losing any sleep over if I just dropped it off at Goodwill or scavanged the fans (nice fans) from it and threw the rest of it in the trash. I may get rid of it and buy another 011D XL EVO. You can do almost anything with the 011D XL EVO. I wish there was a way to easily mount a MO-RA 360 radiator to the rear/right side door and have it look as if it were made to be used that way.

That is an awesome-looking waterblock. I'd like to know where to buy those rubber gaskets for the liquid metal.

Only the most selfish and short-sighted Americans will have a problem with this. Things didn't get screwed up overnight. It took time and the deliberate bad behavior of many people that held positions of power that they were unworthy of holding has led us to where we are now. It's going to take some time to fix it, but in the end it will be worth it. Prices of domestic goods are already showing improvement. In particular, fuel and grocery prices have improved. And, we can see all of the emo-tards having their psychotic meltdowns as DOGE is taking out the trash and exposing nonsense and corruption, ending inappropriate use of taxpayer money, etc. Trump's tariffs are already having the intended outcome. Many large foreign companies are already putting things in motion to move manufacturing to the United States so that tariffs can be avoided. American companies that have played the game of using Chinese slave labor to maximize profits are also pulling back operations to the United States. This will have an added benefit of being able to have more control over what our enemies (like China) can do. This could even have the benefit of totally depriving them access to things that we decide that we don't want them to have access to. Yeah, there are going to be some things that don't feel good while they run their course. If not now, then when? Why wait and let matters worsen? It's not going to get better by itself. Yes, there are going to be some losers, but primarily those that never should have been allowed to participate in the first place. Justice is difficult for the unjust. Not unlike a very calculated and deliberate medical procedure, it's going to hurt for a bit. When it stops hurting its going to be better than it would have been if left untreated.

I wonder if other brands not having anything for sale is because they knew the cost was more than most are willing to pay? If they were smart, that could explain it. There would be little point from a business perspective in producing a grossly overpriced product that would move slowly and have lower demand because of unacceptable pricing.

It looks as though my X870E Apex pre-order with NewEgg is moving. The release date was changed from 4/4/2025 to 3/28/2025 and it now shows as an order with an invoice (no longer a pre-order). Tracking number not issued yet. And, now the Apex is no longer available for pre-order. I take that to mean that it is no longer a pending release but an officially released product now. That really needs to happen, although I would like to see prices implode even further than that. I think NVIDIA and all of the AIB partners need to suffer catastrophic financial losses for their predatory and nefarious behaviors. What we have seen is very carefully executed extortion and probably some serious anti-trust law violations and other crimes would be discovered if anyone decided to start digging deeper. I wonder how many people took the route that I did, said effyew stupid morons and now NVIDIA is experiencing consumer backlash? When I saw 5090 prices I was like "oh hell no... not now, not ever" and decided I would reward AMD for being less blantantly predatory, even though I had every reason to believe I wouldn't like the 9070 XT. The only way the price gouging is ever going to get fixed is by people telling them to stuff it up their tailpipe and leave them holding the bag with product that nobody buys until it gets sold at a price equal to or less than what they need to break even. What is the sudden preoccupation with FE cards? I've always hated FE cards and have never had any desire whatsoever to buy one, at least since the Kepler or Maxwell era. The design of the 3090/Ti 4090 FE cards sucked and the 5090 takes the cake for being a morphodite engineering abortion. It's made like a stinking turdbook with the stupid cards and cables, and a very anti-enthusiast design concept. I hope none of the AIB partners ever do something equally tragic with board design.

https://unikoshardware.com/2025/03/intel-new-microcode-0x12c.html Yeah, no thanks. Stupidity has become the new normal. The incessant chasing of firmware and driver updates is a fool's errand. We don't have to worry about degrading chips because we tune our systems to behave properly and do not allow wild swings in voltage or opportunistic core boosting. We do not need security mitigations nearly as much as people need to stop behaving in a stupid and haphazard manner that places them in harm's way. When things operate on the assumption that everyone is stupid it ruins things for those that are not. It is the tail wagging the dog and being ruled based on the defects and incompetencies of society's lowest common denominators.

So, I think my next project will be to sell the Z790 Apex build before I change my mind and decide against it. I wish I could just sell the entire package preassembled with the MO-RA 360 and chiller. I'd probably keep the 4090 though. I'll probably end up having to sell it in pieces though, because there are no people that I know of locally that can appreciate the sheer wickedness such an insane beast can offer. I wish Brother @Rage Set did not live so far away. This morning I fired it up for the first time in a long time. I think 60 days or so since I turned on the three electrical outlets that power all of it. I ran an AIDA64 memory benchmark and 8600 with tight timings this monster still stomps the life out of everything else I own. I am going to have to turn everything back off before I start questioning why I built two Ryzen machines and have been ignoring this one. If I start using this again I will like the AMD builds less. Just web browsing and launching applications, everything feels so much snappier and lively than I remembered. It makes the Ryzen builds seem laggy and sluggish in comparison. The CPU is running crazy hot, so I am guessing the liquid metal has dried up or run off the die from it sitting idle and turned off for such a long time. (One of the unfortunate down-sides of having the motherboard vertical rather than horizontal is that gravity eventually wins. Horizontal orientation allows the die to perpetually bathe itself in a puddle of liquid metal.) What's funny is it never seemed loud when it was my main rig. Now having 27 fans and 5 D5 pumps purring away seems noisy even though it's not obnoxious and it is running at a very low decibel level. It just seems loud compared to the other more pedestrian Ryzen builds that have fewer moving parts. I also forgot how much cooler the 14900KS runs at an idle. Both of my 9950X CPUs idle about 12°C hotter and run hotter under load even though the 14900KS pulls a whole lot more watts than the 9950X CPUs do. Congrats to your mom on the new laptop. That's quite an upgrade for her. The leap in performance has to be nothing short of astronomical coming from such a tired and relatively slow 10-year old machine. I agree with you on OLED. I'm kind of a weirdo sometimes when it comes to paying high prices for things that don't make a computer run faster, but OLED just doesn't impress me. Too expensive with too little to offer in return, and I'm not into having to pamper a monitor to keep it from getting screen burn. Utter nonsense IMHO. Paying a lot of money for something comparatively fragile and destined to destroy itself is illogical to me. Even if that wasn't an issue, it's not worth the extra cost. Big bucks with little bang seems to be the new world we live in now. Brother @jaybee83 - this one is the one I would recommend. Both of mine are solid AMD kits. https://www.newegg.com/g-skill-32gb-ddr5-8000/p/N82E16820374624?Item=N82E16820374624

It seems like most all AM5 owners (including me) that have them are having the best success with G.Skill Trident Z5 Neo EXPO F5-8000J3848H16G kits. The G.Skill Trident 8000 and TeamGroup Extreme 8200 48GB XMP kits that I have are super stable on Intel but they are not totally stable on the Gene or the AORUS boards. The 16GB G.Skill 8000 Neo kits are very stable in comparison. So far I haven't seen anyone on AM5 that is getting great results with the 24GB sticks. I am hoping the Apex changes that because I have a TeamGroup Xtreem 8200 48GB kit I would love to be able to use in it.

I agree. I do not like that. There are actually a lot of video cards in 30- and 40-series with that kind of backplate. I do not like it because it is ugly and because there is no reason for that part of the GPU to be exposed. It creates a point of weakness and vulnerability. I do not understand why any were ever designed that way. I am glad that my 9070 XT has a solid backplate. The only part that is not solid is the place for the third fan to blow through.