Mr. Fox

That is either a lousy CPU sample or it is not tuned properly. At 59x all P and 48x all E and 52x cache my 13900KS and both 14900KF are like 1.285-1.290 Vcore. He may be running really sloppy LLC allowing the light load voltage to skyrocket. It's definitely not what one would want. My load voltagee does go to 1.430V on VCore unless I am pushing to like 61x all P core. Because I use override voltage and Level 7 LLC there is not a huge difference between my idle and load voltage.

That's just too funny.

EVGA Dark and ASUS Maximus and Rampage boards have had the PCIe power connector for many years. I think the intent is to help keep power delivery stable and consistent, minimizing variance and fluctuation, but not increase the power delivery. Especially beneficial if multiple slots are occupied with a power-hungry component. Probably not any huge benefit if only one slot is used for the GPU and the rest are empty. But we also now have many NVMe and WiFi cards leeching power from PCIe with none of the slots except for the GPU filled, so it makes even more sense now.

It all falls under the "Defender" umbrella, but you are referring only to the malware part. Security Center is a GUI for Defender. My systems don't even have that. The scripts provided will wipe it out entirely. You need to be able to access it once to disable core isolation, tamper protection and all of the other trash first, then the scripts will totally remove everything except for firewall. There will be no services and no security center. I do that on all of my systems, and have been for several years now. Totally nukes it. Doesn't disable things, but physically removes them so they no longer exist and can't be re-enabled. It's awesome. I watched about 4 or 5 minutes of that and now I know for certain I won't be buying that game. Based on my personal preferences it looks extremely boring to me.

Here you go, brother. https://community.hwbot.org/topic/220910-asus-rog-maximus-apex-z790-apex-15/page/7/#comment-673420 Edit: Didn't see that Brother @Papusan already posted it. Was on the next page. Oh well. 🙂

Just nuke Defender completely and get that horrible cancer off your system. It is a resource hog that is inappropriately restrictive and interferes with use of your system. Destroy Defender (from my OneDrive account) If you feel compelled to have a placebo to keep you safe, ESET AV, Kasperski and Panda Free are all good options. Malwarebytes is also decent and I like the added advantage that you can close it manually and end all background services for benching. I am going to let other people spent their money and see what it produces. If it is compelling enough to even consider it, then I will look for better than average samples on overclock.net that are better than average samples after the person blowing money on binning has chosen the best one to keep for themselves. I'm not going to spend money on lottery tickets that are not guaranteed winners. I may never buy another new CPU again. I hate getting screwed with below average trash and having to fart around with RMAs. Almost every Intel and AMD CPU that I have purchased new retail has been disappointing silicon quality.

I am most assuredly not going to play ball in the way the Redmond Retards are changing the game with Winduhz changes. I am glad I began my journey of warming up to Linux. My tolerance for the nonsense of their insane clown posse is wearing very thin. They are hanging by a thread now with their Nazi control freak shenanigans. As I ponder the idea of sunsetting my benching hobby, any incentive to purchase new products is more or less eliminated. Financially, that is a huge win for me and a five finger death punch to the industry if many people have similar personal revelations.

I can see myself, and some other fine people of equal intelligence, (like a lot of us here,) potentially going through a long dry spell and not finding any good reason to purchase new computer tech. Maybe even never finding a good reason in the foreseeable future if the trend continues on its current undesirable downward trajectory. That would actually be a blessing in disguise in some respects. No point in wasting money on downgrades when the result is only newer is better newer.

If it performs the same or better as 13900KS/14900K/KF/KS and ditches the crappy smartphone cores I would be open for the change, but I am skeptical about silicon quality. If it is a voltage pig with insane thermals that limit overclocking, and leave no headroom for overclocking, then probably not. I do love the idea of adding performance cores and eliminating Atom cores as long as benchmark scores are equal to or greater than what I have now. A big monolithic processor with matching cores under a single die, in my opinion, is the only right way to do things. I do not like the elimination of hyperthreading and I would want to see the elimination of Atom cores result in reinstatement of AVX. The E-core crap is why AVX was removed. As usual, we need to wait and see. I'm not crazy about speculation and predictions. I prefer to see tangible evidence. Jose is going to feel slighted that you only mentioned Manuel. 😜 No shifting. Just wide open throttle.

That is sad. But, your involvement for PremaMod Partners remains priceless. I have not noticed anything because I only went from MC 11F to 129 only to fix the SA bug on one CPU. If not for the SA bug fix I would still be using old firmware. The only reason I considered updating to 129 is because it was being reported at overclock.net that MC 129 BIOS fixed the SA bug. One of my five LGA1700 CPUs is a fantastic sample with the SA bug. The others are very good and have no SA bug. Same is/was true for @electrosoft. He has a super chip with the SA bug that 129 fixed. Even so, I probably would not notice the eTVB bug because I manually overclock everything and have eTVB options disabled in the BIOS because I hate that kind of approach to overclocking. I find the "old school" way of doing things to always be the best approach.

Happy Thursday, Brother @Prema. It has been nice seeing you here. I noticed the same. I had manually set it in the BIOS for less than default (Auto) and had to set it back to Auto to make the 8400 memory clock stable. You know me. I'm not going to let the Redmond Reprobates make decisions for me. I, and I alone, will decide what runs on my PC. Much better that way. EULA be damned. Posted this in another thread yesterday... A "secure" system (actually a myth) that doesn't do what you want it to do is worthless. Function and performance always trump security as far as I am concerned. All the patches and security fixes in the world won't fix the DIMM-wit using the keyboard. (Yeah, you saw what I did there, LOL.) The biggest security risk with any computer is a stupid user. Simple fix... for unwanted updates, not for stupid users or stupid employees working on the Windoze Support Team (can't fix stupid)... just tweak the registry and hit "Advanced options" on the Windoze Updates page in settings and delay them for 10 years. Hint: You'll need to scroll a LOOOONG way down to reach the 10 year mark. Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00 [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\WindowsUpdate\UX\Settings] "ActiveHoursEnd"=dword:00000011 "ActiveHoursStart"=dword:00000008 "AllowAutoWindowsUpdateDownloadOverMeteredNetwork"=dword:00000000 "ExcludeWUDriversInQualityUpdate"=dword:00000001 "FlightCommitted"=dword:00000000 "IsExpedited"=dword:00000000 "LastToastAction"=dword:00000000 "UxOption"=dword:00000004 "InsiderProgramEnabled"=dword:00000000 "SvDismissedState"=dword:00000001 "SmartActiveHoursSuggestionState"=dword:00000001 "SmartActiveHoursTimestamp"=hex(b):b9,80,63,7c,b6,73,da,01 "HideMCTLink"=dword:00000001 "RestartNotificationsAllowed2"=dword:00000000 "SmartActiveHoursStart"=dword:00000007 "SmartActiveHoursEnd"=dword:00000010 "FlightSettingsMaxPauseDays"=dword:00000e42 [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\WindowsUpdate\UX\Settings\ModelState] "SignalRegistered"="::2F1AAFCACF" No need to worry about stupid crap like this (below) ruining your day when you're calling all of the shots and keeping the numbskulls at Micro$lop out of your business.

Nobody here disagreed with you that I know of. You are correct. I don't think it will ever work well. It will always have flaws because the entire concept is flawed and was invented by goofballs. AMD started the abomination with their cobbled together mini CPUs and Infinity Fabric crap. People bought it and were excited about the mess, so Intel jumped on the bandwagon with their smartphone core crap. Now we all have to deal with messy doo-doo on both sides of the fence. The moral to the story is this: If it is what the sheeple want and believe in, there is at least a 50% chance that it is trash. It doesn't matter which school they attend, newer is always better newer. Computer technology is circling the drain, regressing rather than progressing. And, the demons that want to drag us into their pit don't care whether we are wearing red or blue pants. Seems to mirror other facets of life beyond technology to a great degree. The world we live in is pretty screwed up. Are the SP ratings deceptively good and not matching nasty details the VF curve, or is all of the information, including what it shows on the VF curve and SP ratings, not the reality of how it behaves? That is pretty sad, but it may have been that way new. The 14900K/KF CPUs I returned to Amazon, NewEgg and the 14900KS returned to Central Computer were the absolute worst silicon samples I have ever had in my possession before. Bad enough there was no way I would try to use them or sell them to someone else at a loss, so I insisted on refunds and got my money back. The KS needed like 1.550V to run Cinebench on BIOS defaults and stock turbo with no ASUS enhancements. I think I remember seeing posts by the guy selling it that he was struggling to get it to behave acceptable. I might have him mistaken for someone else and can't swear to it, but that's why I did not reply to your post if it was the same CPU that you were commenting about how good the predictions looked. This is why I have stocked up on 13th and 14th Gen CPUs of good bin quality. AMD brought nothing worth buying and I expect Intel will have nothing worth buying in their next gen. All the focus is on wrong things. Quality, integrity and customer experience are no longer main points of focus. The focus is developing AI to further the tech syndicate's theft of information and crimes against humanity, a resource for governments to rule by manipulation and fiat, with funding sourced by selling grossly overpriced broken crap to silly people that are addicted to electronics feces and believe everything they see, read and hear on TV and social media.

Nice. Makes me want to do more SMD soldering. No reason in particular, but it's just a cool hot talent. I wondered how she was going to pay for it. Now we know.

A "secure" system (actually a myth) that doesn't do what you want it to do is worthless. Function and performance always trump security as far as I am concerned. All the patches and security fixes in the world won't fix the DIMM-wit using the keyboard. (Yeah, you saw what I did there, LOL.) The biggest security risk with any computer is a stupid user. Simple fix... for unwanted updates, not for stupid users or stupid employees working on the Windoze Support Team (can't fix stupid)... just tweak the registry and hit "Advanced options" on the Windoze Updates page in settings and delay them for 10 years. Hint: You'll need to scroll a LOOOONG way down to reach the 10 year mark. Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00 [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\WindowsUpdate\UX\Settings] "ActiveHoursEnd"=dword:00000011 "ActiveHoursStart"=dword:00000008 "AllowAutoWindowsUpdateDownloadOverMeteredNetwork"=dword:00000000 "ExcludeWUDriversInQualityUpdate"=dword:00000001 "FlightCommitted"=dword:00000000 "IsExpedited"=dword:00000000 "LastToastAction"=dword:00000000 "UxOption"=dword:00000004 "InsiderProgramEnabled"=dword:00000000 "SvDismissedState"=dword:00000001 "SmartActiveHoursSuggestionState"=dword:00000001 "SmartActiveHoursTimestamp"=hex(b):b9,80,63,7c,b6,73,da,01 "HideMCTLink"=dword:00000001 "RestartNotificationsAllowed2"=dword:00000000 "SmartActiveHoursStart"=dword:00000007 "SmartActiveHoursEnd"=dword:00000010 "FlightSettingsMaxPauseDays"=dword:00000e42 [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\WindowsUpdate\UX\Settings\ModelState] "SignalRegistered"="::2F1AAFCACF" No need to worry about stupid crap like this (below) ruining your day when you're calling all of the shots and keeping the numbskulls at Micro$lop out of your business.

I do not do use CMO files across BIOS versions. That is why I save a text file for the profiles I use. Then I can recreate them manually for a newer or older BIOS version. That fixed it. Something from 9933 did not revert back to what it was with 1503 using the in-BIOS flash tool. If you run into weirdness after an in-BIOS update, or going back to a better older version, run BIOS flashback from USB using the button on the rear I/O. Now I can use XMP Tweaked again and no lockups and confirmed no SA bug. It flashed everything doing it that way instead of keeping crap in some regions with a newer timestamp. It takes over twice as long to flash that way, but it does a better job. Back to normal... all settings that worked before still work after BIOS flashback. No SA bug with MC 0x129. It did nothing to help my 81°F (27°C) ambient temperatures in my office. 🤣 Water in my loop is 28°C. 😡

They'll deny it, but I would not be surprised if it was a deliberate act of sabotage rather than a mistake. They are losing market share to older versions of Windows and Linux due to their filthy new cancer OS and what better way to block it than preventing users from booting into Linux when they don't want to deal with Micro$haft's garbage. They are not an honorable company and their lack of integrity is evident to anyone paying attention.

Awesome. I hope they get finanically raped by the litigation and left for dead. Then we can hope the same for lots of their evil accomplices in the tech space to suffer similar tragedies. We need to see some fortunes lost, empires ruined and some key decision-making people criminially prosecuted in order for a lot of this nonsense to get smashed for good.

That is EXACTLY what happened when I went from 1503 to the 9933 XOC BIOS that Safedisk provided last week. I did not try to use an old CMO file. I saved the text and set everything manually. It seemed stable at first but then started locking up in AIDA64 and TM5. I went back to 1503 and applied the stable profile and it was no longer stable like it was before 9933. I still have to do more messing with it to confirm, but I think the XMP Tweaked menu option is causing it now. It did not cause it before, which is weird. ASUS does some nice things with their BIOS, but they do some stupid things as well. When you flash firmware there are certain regions that are protected and never go back to what they were before when you flash the older firmware. That is why I generally think it is best to avoid firmware updates unless I am expecting something I need to happen. MSI and EVGA BIOS updates erase and re-write everything, in all regions. That is how it should be and ASUS needs to get a clue on this. If you pay close attention during an ASUS BIOS update and read the text at the bottom of the screen, sometimes it skips over certain regions and it never flashes some of them. They also need to stop insisting on Intel ME updates and bundling it with the BIOS. Intel ME updates are totally unnecessary. No Intel system requires the Intel ME to fully function. They need to provide the option to disable it. It serves no useful purpose for consumers and having it creates extra security risks that some people get wigged out about. No ME means no vulnerabilities associated with ME. Edit: I think I am going to try the BIOS Flashback recovery and then retest my saved profile with XMP Tweaked. BIOS flashback forces flashing of regions and allows some BIOS mods to be flashed that are blocked through a normal flash update.

Yeah, older BIOS is almost always better than newer. There was an exception as DDR5 technology was needing work, but we are way past that now. SA Bug: If your CPU has it, if you set System Agent voltage (VCCSA) above a certain value, usually a very low value, the system will start freezing. It would lock up in the BIOS or in Windows. This one 14900KF has it and if I left it set on Auto it would go too high and freeze with the CPU under load. I had to manually set it at 1.190V, which was fine up to 8200 CL38, but any higher memory clock than that was not stable because it needed more system agent voltage. I set 1.250V for 8400 CL38 and tight timings. That "no workey" with the SA bug. If you don't want to overclock the memory that high it is not a big deal, but it might lead one to believe something else is wrong if the freezing happens with the BIOS left on Auto and you don't know you have to manually decrease it from default. Using as little as you need is always good as long as you are not limited by the bug. Welcome back to bare die paradise. I thought you had lost your marbles there for a bit. I hate having an IHS on my CPUs. It sucks, LOL.

It may be another setting and not the SA bug. I went back to 1503 and applied my old profile and it was freezing in AIDA64 the same as 9933. Not sure why, so I applied XMP and manually set VCCSA to 1.350V and no freezing. So, something did change. I switched to XMP I (instead of XMP Tweaked) and applied my settings and now no more freezing. So, I may go back and test 9933 again with different settings to see for sure. It's weird that it was working fine and then suddenly XMP Tweaked would cause it to start freezing. The only reason I even considered updating the BIOS at all was to see if it fixed the SA bug on this one CPU. Otherwise, no need for BIOS updates. Waste of time and often brings less desirable performance, especially if "security" mitigations are part of the cancer payload. I was pleasantly surprised that it fixed that. Applying the microcode in Windows does NOT fix the SA bug. (I tried the Windows MC Prema shared and it did not correct the issue.) We are also only assuming it was the microcode update. Logical assumption, but it could be something else. I say logical because the SA bug was motherboard agnostic. Was the same on my MSI board as the ASUS and the BIOS update corrected it. If I had left this CPU in the MSI Z790I Edge ITX board it would have continued to be perfectly fine with the SA bug for the same reason you mention. Air cooled in a small chassis and poor circulation, 8200 is the edge of stability due to temperatures anyhow. Having low VCCSA because you can and because you want to is good. It's only an issue if you wanted to push it further and can't because of a flaw preventing it. Inconsequential otherwise. But, nobody like knowing there is a fly in the ointment. So, it is working without issue again. Will play with tightening up the timings again now that I am using the XMP I instead of XMP Tweaked option. Interesting change that makes no sense. The Intel ME was not updated, so I cannot blame it on that.

I spoke too soon. BIOS 9933 brought back the SA bug. Going back to 1503 and hoping it goes away again.

Just tested the new XOC BIOS for the Apex Encore and will apply it to the white Apex as well. It has the new 0x129 MC, but retains the ability to drop back to 11F. I tested it on the Encore first since the CPU with the SA bug that got fixed by 0x129 is installed in the Encore. Later today I am going to change to MC 11F and see if the SA bug rears its head again, or if that did something permanent to solve the bug. In other news, there is a ROG theme available in the latest HWiNFO64. It in typical ASUS fashion, it is the most tacky-looking theme one could ever imagines. It looks effing AWFUL, especially in dark mode. What is wrong with these nutjobs and their tacky and over-the-top garish aesthetic preferences? I am going to have to PM Martin over at HWiNFO forum and ask if the style of the theme was specified by ASUS or if he created it while taking drugs.

I find it very hard to see any visual difference in the benchmark no matter what settings are used. The issue using DLSS on 2080 Ti and 3090 Ti is there is no frame generation, and the benchmark does not have options for performance vs quality. It was interesting seeing how the different settings affected the different GPUs. I agree. I don't like FSR and generally don't use it. On a GPU with no DLSS+frame generation, at least in this benchmark, it provides a better framerate with the FSR frame generation. Unless something unusual changes my mind, I have no intention of buying the game though (I seldom ever enjoy playing RPG) so it's all just for benching fun and won't matter in the grand scheme of things. Howdy stranger. Nice seeing you. Hope you can stay for a spell. I think Steel Nomad is a joke. 3DMark Suite in general has become a bloated piece of garbage benchmark. The more they add to it, the trashier it seems to get. Things started circling the drain with Port Royal and have gotten progressively worse. The best benchmarks in the suite are those with CPU and combined scores, and the very best (Sky Diver) is "no longer supported" because UL is run by idiots. Of course, these are my personal biases, so I know not everyone will agree with them.

Things start getting sketchy and the 2080 Ti starts showing its age with Super Resolution at 100%, which is tough even for the 4090. Basically nothing can produce a smooth experience cranks up like that. Even so, with everything maxed out it still performs stronger than I expected it to. It would not be a good gaming experience (slideshow)... but still... just saying... One thing I did not expect is that with RT turned off the GPU power increased by about 50W. Because there was not a pronounced difference in the image quality, I am assuming this is because 100% of the workload shifts to the rendering cores and the tensor cores take a nap. If that is the correct explanation it makes sense, but I would have assumed that ray tracing enabled would increase the power utilization.. It seems to balance it out and relieve some stress on the GPU core.