Mr. Fox

21 minutes ago, Papusan said:

Couldn't say it better myself. See bolded text above. Even if you tweak the OS for your likings, its still a half-baked OS! Isn't that correct bro @Ashtrix @Mr. Fox?

yes, it is

It seems like they have chosen to accept and celebrate their defects rather than mitigate them, which is fitting with the modern way of skirting and excusing issues.

19 minutes ago, johnksss said:

I can attest to this...My first card was a dude on memory over clocking and not that good on core with AIO and with water block. This current card on just AIO pretty much beat everyone of mine and just about every one else's records.

 

So yes, good binned card on AIO or even Air can run circles around well cooled bad binned cards.

The really sinful part of it is there shoud be NO SUCH THING as a crappy binned FTW3, K|NGP|N, HOF or any other special built product designed for overclocking. It's either a horrible mistake that the manufacturer should feel morally obligated to correct for free, or it is a dishonest business practice. You don't charge anyone top dollar for a crème de la crème product, give them a piece of dung, and then expect them to just suck it up and hope for better luck next time unless you are a dishonest company that isn't shy about screwing their customers. They should be more carefully screening quality and chasing down any that accidentally slipped through their QC and offering to refund or replace it with a product that meets an extremely high standard that matches the extremely high price tag.

54 minutes ago, Steerpike said:

I was a huge fan of windows 7, and was horrified by windows 8.1. Windows 10 was a slight improvement over 8.1, thankfully (hard to imagine how it could have been any worse). Just how much worse W11 is compared to W10 remains to be seen.  But I don't quite see how one is to meaningfully 'reject' these newer releases, when MS get their license money on new laptop sales no matter which version you end up using. As a lowly 'end user', no longer having access to corporate licensing (having retired from the business), it's not clear how I can 'reject' W11 unless I'm willing to pay quite a bit extra for licenses. 

 

But has it been all bad?  When, exactly, did display scaling get introduced? I remember buying a stack of W7 Laptops (for work) back in the day, and being almost unable to use them due to them having very high resolution screens, and no meaningful way to reduce the display resolution (text was so small as to be unreadable). I may be wrong but I thought W10 was when practical display scaling came into existence.

Not all bad, just mostly bad. I don't use display scaling if I can avoid it. It helps but has issues. Not everything scales correctly. I choose a laptop with the screen of the proper resolution for comfortable viewing without any scaling. I like 100% on everything. I think the idea of having a 4K screen on a laptop is idiotic. It is way too small. On 15 inch or less, 1080p at 100% is good. On 17 inch 1440p at 100% is good.

I buy OEM Windows keys really cheap and activate using hardware ID. So, it doesn't cost much. I have never purchased a retail version of Windows and never have paid more than about $25. Usually about half that much for OEM keys.

I realize even suggesting something requiring enough technical skill as a format and reinstall terrifies the average computer user even though it is not a difficult task. It makes me sad to know many are held hostage due to their own fear.

Some believe having the newest OS version means they already have the best option. This is a dead giveaway that they are ignorant and lacking in technical strength.

1 hour ago, Papusan said:

Or make trash... Intel NUC 12 Dragon Canyon with Intel Core i9-12900 in review
https://www.notebookcheck.com/Intel-NUC-12-Dragon-Canyon-mit-Intel-Core-i9-12900-im-Test.610236.0.html

 

Nevertheless, the compact design only offers limited space for appropriate cooling. With the unthrottled Intel Core i9-12900, this is very quickly at the limit under load, so that the temperature limit is reached again and again.

A NUC is a dumber idea than a laptop in many ways. You get to enjoy all of the same functional (power and thermal) benefits limitations of a turdbook minus the portability offered by the built-in keyboard, pointing device and screen. 

4 minutes ago, Papusan said:

The ASUS ROG Strix LC RTX 3090 T run sub 50C and still become beaten in OC by the 15 C hotter running air cooled MSI card.  Either a frog from Asus or Asus use worse binned chips  to compansate the increased costs for the more expensive AIO cooling solution. You should still be able for a decent vram oc even if you run above sub zero temps. But nothing really help if they cut cost.

It is true that better thermals won't do enough for lousy silicon samples. Like putting lipstick on a pig.

I wonder if the double-density GDDR6X chips are more resistant to overclocking due to their 100% increased capacity per IC? System memory works that way and doesn't overclock as well. Might be true for graphics memory as well.

14 minutes ago, serpro69 said:

Haha, I like that approach  
My own opinion probably matches about 50% the time with an average score on IMDB. Sometimes I completely disagree with the overrated ratings for the cr*p that's been coming out past years, other times it's more or less spot on. My main use-case for IMDB though is not to decide whether to watch something or not, but to keep track of the stuff that I've watched.

The ones difficult to identify are the shows/movies with an overtly biased subliminal message. Some folks are susceptible to brainwashing, while others simply want to know what garbage to avoid to inflict financial deprivation and hinder success of the creators releasing their woke agenda/green crap propaganda. The reviewers seem to intentionally avoid calling attention to those bits, either because they share the dimwitted point of view or they are afraid of the cancel culture thought police coming after them.

9 minutes ago, Papusan said:

Fancy sell. Bling bling and exotic cooling is worthless if the cards get chips from the bottom barrel.

 

When AIO solution is wasted money for OC'ing.... Why offer good cooling on cards if they pair it with bad binned chips?

 

The biggest gimp on this card so far is the GDDR6X memory overclocking, which I was limited to pushing +1200MHz into it (22.8Gbps or so) compared to the MSI RTX 3090 Ti SUPRIM X which can easily have +1800MHz pumped into it pushing it past 24Gbps... incredible stuff. Not stable in every game at +1700-1800MHz, but for cypto mining it's absolutely rock solid. The ASUS... not so much.

 

ASUS ROG Strix fans will gush over this card, but with the OC dials turned up to 11... the water-cooled card isn't doing much to impress. If we saw the power limit pushing upwards of 600W, and the GPU clocks pushing 2250-2300MHz+ then that would be a different story for the AIO cooler.

 

ASUS ROG Strix LC GeForce RTX 3090 Ti: Overclocking (OC) tweaktown.com

With room temperature thermal throttling nonsense, none of it matters a lot unless you can stay well below ambient temperatures for overclocking. Having a GPU running cool isn't good enough to hold the clocks where you put them. It has to run freakishly cold, and an AIO is not going to do that for you unless you put the box outside during the winter and you live in a place like Norway or Alaska.

52 minutes ago, electrosoft said:

Monster binning spreadsheet including lots of 12900ks data:

 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1RbxEuee-BphG3ukNNgwwl_uQ6PZwjXCQtg60m3ur4NU/edit#gid=413101295

 

One early calculation is a KS_SP == K_SP-10; but we'll see ( IE KS SP90 would equal K SP100) ..

 

Average P core = ~98

Min / Max SP = 84 /99

Min / Max P = 88 / 106

 

Unless you dial up your 12900k to ks specs it is hard to compare but as always I'd set baselines and start auto LLC3 and force 4.9 -> 5.5 (or till fail) all core and do some CB23 runs and see how much it pulls. You can glom all over SP ratings to a point, but the proof is in the pudding when you set hard numbers and put it under load and see what it is guzzling and how much heat it is putting out.

 

It will sort itself out over the next few weeks but early numbers are ho hum at best.

I did not really expect the KS to be a different product as much as a binned sample of an existing product. So, there is some basis for disappointment. However, taking the glass is half full view, buying a KS might be the best way to avoid being dealt a tragic ticket in the silicon lottery. That's not a bad thing per se, but paying $200 extra for something that isn't as good or better than a superior 12900K silicon sample is where the basis for disappointment comes in. It's more like damage control  or loss prevention than an upgrade. You have to decide whether it is better to roll the dice on a K and hope for a win, or pay extra for something that is, at least, pretty good... with potential to be better than pretty good. If the chips are now being culled in favor of KS branding, then the chances of winning with a K might be drying up as old stock gets sold and replaced with stock representing the culled chips that didn't make the KS cut.

Speaking of undesirable change... looking back can be helpful in identifying how much things have declined. It also helps identify how long things have been allowed to remain screwed up because people tolerate crap. (Example is the crummy Start Menu that has sucked on every version that followed Windows 7.)

21 minutes ago, Steerpike said:

I don't think it's really a case of 'liking it' as opposed to 'learning to live with it'. I've bought 2 new laptops in the past couple of months (Dell XPS 17 (returned) and LG Gram 17) and both came with W11.   I don't have ready access to media any longer, so if I can learn to live with 11, life is just easier. My approach is, see if I can tolerate it and get used to it, before going to the trouble of backing it out.  So far, I'm reasonably tolerating it! 

I can certainly see the logic of that, and for the average user that is probably more their speed in terms of technical skill. But, it is still a hell of a note to learn to put up with crap when you have other options available that work better. Learning to live with it instead of rejecting it helps facilitate the dumbing down of the product because the Redmond Retards expect everyone to put up and shut up. We can expect things to degrade more than they already have if that is the common approach. And, sadly, it seems to be.

The same problematic approach has also been extremely harmful to those with higher expectations on the hardware side of computing. It is certainly easier to go with the flow than it is to take a stand.

18 hours ago, serpro69 said:

The reviews on IMDB are horrible though 

I honestly use that as a barometer in the exact opposite manner intended. The chance that I will like a movie with positive reviews is very slim. The possibility I will love, purchase and re-watch something "professional" reviewers do not like is huge... probably 98% chance I will love it, because movie reviewers are just weirdos that I have nothing in common with.

Come to think of it, that kind of applies to PC tech reviewers as well.  The selection of likable things in PC tech is a lot smaller, with a much higher disappointment and failure rate than movies though. But, the failure rate of reviewer opinions is probably about the same as it relates to their inability to discern the difference between good and garbage. 

2 hours ago, electrosoft said:

When you want to SLI some EVGA 3090ti's.....whew:

 

 

Just happened to catch this before heading for bed. If that fella can afford $4500+ for two of those graphics cards and crazy expensive motherboard, certainly he can afford a better case to house them. Or, maybe he can't because he doesn't have any money left, LOL 

Dealing with Micro$lop is like having to put up with feral cats and stray dogs screwing up your stuff. Part of you feels bad for them, but eventually the day comes that you terminate them because being humane and sympathetic is no longer an option. Stopping the damage is the only thing that matters, even if it means becoming harsh and brutal to prevent them from screwing up more stuff. They are expendable and a nuisance, and patience is limited.

Mrs. Fox and I am enjoying watching Blindspot. Good series.

I watched the first episode of Halo and liked it. I prefer to binge watch things, so I will wait until a month or two passes so I can do it that way.

All caught up on 1883 and Yellowstone, so waiting for the next season on each of those to surface.

I am waiting for more episodes of Blacklist so I can return to binge through season 9. That has been an awesome series, but I think season 9 might be a good place to end it. It is starting to lose its shine now, with Elizabeth dead and Dembe and Reddington going different directions. Enough is enough.

2 hours ago, johnksss said:

Do a system restart or a driver reset next time. That should correct the problem. Speculations of course.

 

What is this run considered?

I second the recommendation on the driver reset. I know if I switch vBIOS modes I usually have to reinstall the GPU driver or the changes in voltage and power limits go unrecognized. I seldom do that. As a general rule, I just always leave it on the 1000W XOC vBIOS Vince provided, but I have observed that issue the few times I have tried using a different vBIOS.

23 hours ago, johnksss said:

On my older card...about memory=1250 to 1400 and on core=150 to 180 on a really good day.

New to me card. memory=1700+ and core=240+

Yes and this is where AMD is still smacking the stuffing out of Nvidia right now....

Stuck on 800Mhz does not look very inviting to potential buys....😆

 

On 4/2/2022 at 1:09 AM, ssj92 said:

Alright my 3090 KPE was just not cooperating with OC. I was at it for 2-3 hours. Seems 800Mhz on memory is all it can do before crashing. So here's some comparisons stock vs stock, 3090 KPE vs 3090Ti FTW3 Black Gaming. Basically one of the fastest 3090 and the base stat 3090Ti. Both cards were max power target and temp target but stock clocks. 

It is really inexcusable that they would even sell K|NGP|N or FTW3 cards with so much variance. They should have a much tighter control on binning and not sell crap samples for the same price as golden samples. It's a hell of a note to pay extra for something that is supposed to be awesome only to find out you bought a fancy piece of dung. They are pre-binning their KPE and FTW3 GPUs, so they already have the process in place to identify the garbage samples. If they are going to sell the crap samples they should identify them clearly by grade and sell them for a lower price with full disclosure. I'd even go as far as calling it dishonest to leave K|NGP|N and FTW3 buyers at the mercy of luck. They should all be very tight with little or no variance if they are being sold for the same price. I know I am not alone in saying that I would willingly pony up an extra $200-$300 for top bin quality. I'd also take a pass on something less to save money. Nobody likes getting screwed over because somebody them sold something the manufacturer knew was inferior before it left the factory.

13 hours ago, Rage Set said:

I'm with Mr. Fox, it is going to be awhile before I upgrade anything.

What might be more fun, and interesting, is waiting for the used GPU market to get screwed up for 3090 owners looking to sell/upgrade so that one can be grabbed  for a fraction of current going rate, then shunt mod it and force flash modded firmware to see if it can keep up with or beat the 3090 KPE. If it is anything like it has been with the 2080 Ti FTW3, then I suspect it will vaporize the performance difference and ultimately be better because of the wide variety of options available for third-party water blocks and back plates. I really love how the K|NGP|N cards are over-built, but at the end of the day I am no longer convinced that is matters that much. And, the proprietary form factor is, without question, an impediment where options and freedom start to matter. It's too bad it can't be overbuilt without so much disruption to physical compatibility. 

The nice thing about benching obsolete hardware is you can often swoop in and steal rank from people that previously set high scores when the hardware was current after it is too late for them to return and try harder because they no longer own the hardware and can't re-enter the competition. It is like playing the role of a sniper. You are patiently waiting in the distance while the battle rages, hiding in shadows... silently waiting until the opportunity for a stealth headshot surfaces. Nobody sees you and the moment they let their guard down *BAM* ...game over. Brother @Papusan has figured that out and pretty much mastered the art of it.

This Asian drummer-girl really rocks...

I ran out of fittings, so until I get some additional fittings the chiller is not connected, but I finally received the EK manifold for the Level 20 XT. This is super convenient and I wish I would have had one even using the Wetbench. All of the QDC fittings are at the terminal/manifold and nowhere near any part of the computer, so a drip or drop is not going to even matter. I still cannot get over how gigantic this case it. I really like how easy it is to access everything, almost the same as an open bench. Nothing anywhere is a tight fit.

I put a 1/8th inch thick aluminum plate in the space designed for the second PSU and have the water ports to the case there with pass-through fittings. It worked out really clean. The manifold also upped the flow rate from about ~90L/H to ~160L/H. I also like having it positioned parallel to the width of the desk. It is nice having the rear I/O ports within arm's reach while sitting at the keyboard without having to reach behind the chassis to fiddle with cables. That MSI Tuning Panel being stuck to the rear panel with magnets also puts power, reset and other tweaking buttons at my fingertips... super convenient.

5 minutes ago, Papusan said:

The trend will also affect desktops. Desktop processors is now reused mobile chips that sip too much power in laptops. Not the opposite. Hence we now see hybrid processors with half of the cores as small wimpy power efficient E-cores. 

It already does. But, it will get worse. The Nazis making the decisions that affect us all have an agenda. The only way to address it is by defunding them... aka, not buying their filth. No money, no more progress on the agenda. If we get lucky, then they all die from starvation and dehydration.