electrosoft

I thought so too till I checked B&H's website: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?q=5090&sts=ma You will notice non MSI cards are open tomorrow for preorders/orders, while MSI cards says the 6th. The quote above says it's possible they will, but also entirely possible they won't. Hopefully tomorrow other US retailers have them available, but we will see.

Ditto with Best Buy. They had a few 5090's listed (if you know the URL or save it, you can get to it for now), but now it's just the FE and Gigabyte AORUS Master 5090 listed. FYI, the AORUS Master 5090 is $2529 at BB. Apparently Best Buy continues to refine their system to prevent bots and snipers. I know with the FE it is one per customer and that is for the life of the account for that card. When I bought a FE 4090 last year, I tried to purchase another one when it became available just to see if it was true and it is. Even months later, it wouldn't let me buy it saying I had already purchased one. I hope this extends to all their high demand GPUs now but we will see tomorrow.

So I take it MSI is off the table for all of us in the US till 06-02-2025 for 5090/5080? They aren't launching theirs till next week. Even B&H says preorders start on the 6th vs tomorrow.

I absolutely agree. When RT is an option, I always enable it. Once you see it in action you can immediately tell when you disable it. I've lost count how many times I've argued with WoW players trying to defend AMD and when they see their 7900xtx start performing like a 3080 w/ RT on their immediate response is, "it's a waste of time anyhow lulz. Turn it off!"

Depending on how tomorrow unfolds for us along with @tps3443 luck, I might be interested in your 4080 Super. Let's see how things go. 🙂 Cost per frame analysis at 4k. 4070 Super is a banger and 5080 is not doing too shabby either. At pure retail pricing, 4090 is only beaten for worse value by the original MSRP of the 4080. 5090 is obviously a bad buy for cost per frame too. I said it before and I'll say it again, especially depending on games played and if you do not care about RT, 7900xtx is not a bad card at all. Price is grossly unrealistic now though...$799.99 should be its new norm. 9070xt should be ~$649.95 and replace the 7900xt. 7900GRE is discontinued already. From my YT subs....a tale of two cities. I feel like Jufus is pandering a bit. One side of his mouth he "keeps it real," but other side he definitely wants those free items sent along with getting his viewers to keep funding his habit. I do not like it when some YT channels keep trying to reinforce that their view is the only way and everybody else is fake news to a degree while also shilling and patting themselves on the back way too often. This is his problem even though I do enjoy some of his content and agree with him half the time. At least he's tier 2 now and scored a 5080 FE and some items from Asus so far even with a ~35k sub count. Kudos to him!

I think the lack of availability but a high level of apathy coming off of the 4000 series coupled with a major price hike does have some rather indifferent (myself included). When tomorrow rolls around, I don't know what I'll pull the trigger on if anything. All I know is if nothing in the 5090 presents itself, there are other or no options. Like you, I'm thinking of holding onto my 4070 Super for a few reasons: The wife's 3080 Strix is officially out of warranty and has had a lot of gameplay on it for 3.5 years straight. Might be time to sell it and move on. This 4070 Super is a great clocker, runs quiet, sips power in comparison and zero coil whine. I also have zero desire to limp along with zero GPU and on my NH55 while I wait for something to say, "This is it!" 5090 is obviously in play 5080 suddenly is in play Relaxing with my 4070 Super while I let my choice organically manifest is in play A heavily discounted 7900xtx is in play A discounted 4080 Super is in play 9070XT still has an outside chance of being in play

lol, that's what I've been trying to say in previous posts. You're getting a better card for the same price even in the face of inflation. This goes across the entire Nvidia 5000 stack EXCEPT the 5090. In every segment so far from the 5070 to the 5080, you are getting more bang for your buck at either the same price or a lower price even. 7900XTX needs to drop to ~$799.99 to be properly competitive but I suspect $849.99 will be the new norm. 15% less and still a banger of a raster card. OR look at it like another Super refresh (Super TI?) that provides a marginal uplift, access to new technologies for the same or lesser price. It just slots in just like the Supers did. Those who are calling this generation the 40X0 Super TI refresh aren't wrong. Also the OC room and overall performance uplift is looking really good looking at Jufus's numbers. +25% on Firestrike? +18% on Timespy MaxOC vs MaxOC vs 4080? Within 1% of the 4090 on Firestrike? Only 11% slower than the 4090 MaxOC vs MaxOC on Timespy? For $999? Yeah..... 7900XTX needs to get real with itself real fast. Jufes hitting 3300mhz is pretty righteous and hopefully bodes well for other 5080's.

Considering it wasn't a leaker but an actual retailer who has 9070/xt's on hand (and in the picture) discussing they were supposed to launch last week but have been delayed now after Nvidia's announcement, I know who I trust and it isn't Azor. lol, you sound like a kid visiting Disney for the first time. 🙂 I like it! I'm indifferent and that is an odd place for me to be mentally. I finally realize why. I feel EXACTLY how I felt when the 2080ti was announced at those prices and when I rocked an AMD 5700xt for almost two years till I picked up a 3090. If I can shake this general disgust at the market and pointedly Nvidia, my order remains the same: #1. Suprim Air #2. Suprim AIO #3. FE #4. Astral (heh, right) I had the opportunity on launch day for the 4000 series to snag a Gigabyte and a lesser MSI but passed because for these prices, I'm not settling. Between the four models, I will snag whichever presents itself first on launch day if I pick one up or I will just opt to pass and not even look. When I say I'm on the fence, I'm on the fence. I'm also hoping for another substantial price drop on the 7900xtx's once the 5080's drop too so that's in play also. They've already come down 10-20% already.

As predicted, Nvidia's pricing was a shock to AMD's system. Initial pricing was to be ~$899 for the 9070XT which is INSANE but it looks like they were trying to keep the launch pricing of the 7900XT. They also were going to go for $749 for the non XT even. If I had to guess, I think they thought Nvidia was going to come in $100 higher (or caught wind it might) on the 5070ti vs $50 lower. I honestly don't know what they were thinking with the $749 on the non XT. Someone needs to drag AMD into an alleyway, put them up on the wall and say, "This ain't yer CPU division bub....you ain't Nvidia! Fix your $&*%!" https://videocardz.com/newz/retailer-confirms-powercolor-radeon-rx-9070-xt-red-devil-limited-edition-is-in-stock-talks-amd-pricing-strategy 7900xtx prices have dropped and continue to drop. Sapphire Nitro+ = $919. Pulse = $829 because they can't compete with the 5080 anywhere near their former prices and had a rough go even against the 4080 Super. I'm watching and if the Nitro drops below 900 beans I might have to snatch one up. I've been purposely running WoW at 4k Ultra 10 + RT on the 4070 Super the last week to really get a taste of that lower fps life and logging gpu usage to really get an idea of the sweet spot before I return it Friday and a 7900xtx is ~50% more powerful than the 4070 Super with the newest drivers. Obvious a 5090 would immediately introduce the mother of all CPU bottlenecks....

Plus I've just had such good luck with MSI overall the last several years from their products to their warranty services. Even this MSI Ventus 3x 4070 Super is so quiet under load and no coil whine (but again, that might be my PSU helping out I realize). Suprim is definitely #1 on my list. EVGA will always be #1 on my list....in my heart 💔 30th is right around the corner. Still debating if I want one and if I want to venture out to Microcenter.

The pros of the 5080 that even Nvidia recognized is that it is marginally faster than the 4080 Super. They also kept the price the same instead of raising it even in the face of inflation and past trends. I think we keep forgetting that. You are getting a newer card, with newer features that is 10-15% faster for the same price. $999.99 in 2022 is $1059 in today's money Unlike classic Nvidia they didn't raise the price of the card You are getting more performance than before I think Nvidia knows this is a soft cycle and they need a newer architecture and a node shrink for next time. In Intel speak, in the land of Tick-Tock, this is definitely Tick-Tick land. This is also why they lowered the price of the 5070ti and kept the 5070 the same as last gen. Last gen launch vs this gen launch: 3070($499)->4070($549) = 10% price hike. 4070-5070= same price 3070ti($599)->4070ti($799) = ~33% price hike. 4070ti($799)->5070ti($749) = ~7% price reduction 3080($699)->4080($1199) = ~33% price hike. 4080($1199) ->5080 ($999) = ~20% price reduction 3090($1499)->4090($1599) = ~7% hike. 4090($1599) ->5090 ($1999) = ~25% price HIKE 5090 is where the real shanking is taking place. Everywhere else you're getting more for less actually even the 5070 with inflation calculated in.

Did Galax officially cancel the HOF or is it just a rumor?

Astral 5090 vs Strix 4090 for Coil Whine: The coil whine on the Strix 4090 is the soul crushing, ear destroying type that sends any card right back or to the for sale forums / ebay. Astral is still annoying, but nowhere near on the same level as that Strix. That is how my 3090 FE sounded. ---- It seems just about every reviewer made note of the coil whine of the 5090 FE which now has me very wary but de8auer's review where he holds the mic up to it shows it's not nearly as bad as previous FEs or even as bad as the Astral. ------------------- That's how I look at it too. 34gbps is pretty hefty but overall these cards are coming off the line already pushing limits ala Intel style. basically 600w out the door. Let's be realistic here. For me, my favorites have now changed to (in order): Suprim AOC Suprim Liquid Astral FE It is the same cycle again. Just like the 4080 wasn't really an upgrade for 3090 owners. Only upgrade for a 4090 owner is again another 090 class card. You either break the cycle by skipping a few generations and picking up an 080 or even 070 class card, or you keep lining up for the next 090 card: I personally don't think there will be a 5090ti with those full fat dies being earmarked for their AI targeted cards and a $3k+ Titan but.... If Nvidia released a 5090ti, it would fall into their TI cadence though. 1080 was followed up the next year with a 1080ti 2080ti was launched and stayed top dog 3090 was followed up a year and a half later with the 3090ti 4090 was launched and stayed top dog 5090 = ????? I said it before and I'll say it again. Nvidia aspires to be Apple. They want to control the entire supply chain and they are pushing just as hard to release CPUs as GPUs to sell the complete, integrated package. They don't want AIBs but need them still and each generation they continue to abuse them with draconian control measures and destroy their margins causing their prices to keep going up for us end users to purchase. Nvidia is top dog and they know it. AMD has absolutely nothing to offer at the upper end so Nvidia can price things however they want and with AI booming, we get the defective dies/chopped down cores on the 5090 and the Titan and AI segment get the full fat cores. ---- As consumers we vote with our wallets and that's that. When, collectively, we stop buying enough to make a dent on their bottom line and the bean counters sound the alarm, THAT is when they will take their boot off our throats if only a smidge. Till then? Business as usual.

Ugh, the more you buy the more noise you get? $2800 is absolute insanity. With tax = $2985.50 here so $3k for a video card.... THAT. IS. NUTZ. !! That is well over $1000 more than I paid for my Suprim Liquid 4090 after tax. It makes the Suprim look like the sweet spot at $2557.94 after tax lol Gigabyte at $2249 is "only" a 12.5% markup over MSRP or an extra $266.55 out of my pocket.... So the Astral rules supreme (so far) in PCB VRMS/robustness this time around? Boooooo Suprim is a chonker though in the best way. And yeah, the way they're pushing up against the wall, those two extra stages won't really make or break anything.

I laughed out loud over this one. 🤣 In all honesty, we were all Sheeple the moment we ponied up $1500 for a 3090 and $2k for a KPE...... Or when we ponied up $1600+ for a 4090..... Cards moved for Ampere and Ada priced at $2k so Nvidia and AIBs keep pushing upward till they feel a noticeable loss in sales like the 4080 and retreated back down to $999 with the 5080 and have stayed there even this cycle along with lowering prices on the 5070ti and keeping the 5070 the same price. It shows Nvidia bean counters respond to market forces like consumer spending limits and AMD. 5090? Zero competition. Zero need to compete price wise. AIBs? Getting in on the money grab. 40% markup for Asus this time with the Astral vs 25% before with the Strix. MSI? 25% markup vs less than 10% before with the Suprim.

5090 is screaming for a FormD T1 type case with the GPU mounted at the top and inverted to exhaust out the top of the case. Coupled with a 9800X3D with air cooling low profile style and both tuned with a perfect undervolt and that would be a wrecker of a portable system. I'll be curious to see what optimum does with his for a sff build since his build out with a 4090 is absolutely insanity in size, performance, cooling and noise.

1. True, I have the means. 2. Jettisoned my 4090 and got it all back 3. WoW and FO can always use more FPS, especially lows above 100fps. I'd like to lock 144fps everywhere high and low. That's the end game for me. 4. It's a pure luxury item for me, but I want to continue to dabble more in LLMs and AI. 4090 was such an ad hoc generational leap it was insane and only $100USD more. 5090 is a much harder sell: much less leap; much more price. This is really a referendum on AI, DLSS4 and FG than anything.

Definitely true. I only game at 4k, but I can see where if 1440p is your chosen resolution a 4090 is more than enough especially if you're not interested in super super high refresh rates. The problem was we couldn't see the true extent of the bottleneck 1440p with the 9800X3D and 4090 till tested against the 5090 only to realize even the 9800X3D was gasping for air at 1440p all along! Even some 4k results with the 5090 have the 9800X3D tapped out but that was to be expected as there were already a few instances of the 9800X3D hitting a wall at 4k with the 4090. Intel? AMD? Get your act together.....

No argument from me on this one. But based on 3080->3080ti and 4080->4080 Super, the 5090 is definitely more than a TI or Super but not worthy of a new generation. Let's call it the 4090TI Super..... This means 6000 series should be a true monster with new architecture and another node shrink.

What's funny is reading this snippet of PCgamers review: "For me, I'd take that extra little bit of heat for the pleasure of its smaller footprint. What I will say, however, is that I did experience a lot of coil whine on our PC Gamer test rig. So much so, that Nvidia shipped me a second card to test if there was an issue with my original GPU. Having now tested in my home rig, with a 1600 W EVGA PSU, it seems like the issue arose because of how the Seasonic Prime TX 1600 W works with the RTX 5090, because in my PC the card doesn't have the same constantly pitching whine I experienced on our test rig." My 3090 FE was running on a Seasonic 1000w PSU (I eventually replaced with a Corsair 1200w that was recalled during their cold power issues) and subsequently also a 3070 FE running on that same Seasonic 1000w PSU and all were coil whine monsters. I sold off both and assumed it was Nvidia curse. The Seasonic is now in the wife's system w/ the 3080 Strix and if I don't cap the frames it is very noisy with coil whine but when I was testing it last year after a repaste in my main rig uncapped, the coil whine was almost non-existent on my EVGA 1600w 3090ti, 4090 and now this 4070 Super have been some of the quietest cards I've run and all have been running on this EVGA 1600w P2. Bud's 4090 FE is running on an EVGA 1300w P2 and it is quiet enough. Correlation is not causation and this is anecdotal at best, but a fun observation. If I do manage to score an FE, it will be interesting to see how it sounds on the EVGA 1600w P2 then maybe slap it into the wife's system just to see if the coil whine ramps up. Seems like we all won the lottery. 🙂 @tps3443 What does your wife say when you order all these toys? 🤣

That is true. Getting one early and riding it the entire cycle is the way to get the best value. Use it, ride it, sell it towards end cycle. Rinse/Repeat. It is just getting one that is going to be the problem at launch but they will eventually become available. They always do. You just have to be diligent. I lucked up and scored a 3090 FE less than a month after launch on BB. Hated it because it had the worst coil whine, even to this day, I have ever heard on a GPU. I didn't think coil whine could be that bad and sold it basically at cost to iunlock and then camped out for a KPE3090 which I scored in January. 4090 I ended up finally getting the model I wanted ~3months after launch from da egg and rode that for almost two years till selling it and recouping it all. ----- Looking forward to the AIB reviews tomorrow but the 5090 FE is quieter under load than the 4090 FE due to pitch. Hear the difference between the two and I used a 4090 FE before on my FO76 buddy's system before (ironically, he works at BB) and I didn't think it was that loud at all under load so that bodes well: Jay showing sound/pitch at both fixed to 65%:

It seems pretty loud, but the performance is there on average 35% faster than the 4090 and in some other reviews depending on game, up to 50% faster. It's a certified beast. I don't know if I can do 40dBA for a desktop card. That is approaching loud gaming laptop levels quickly. Even scarier it is 75% faster than a 7900xtx on average (but 100%+ more expensive). It is a flat out beast 4k card. ------ I was talking to the wife about tapping out because of cost (more like ranting). And she just looked at me incredulously and said: Her: "So you have no problems dropping 5k+ on vacations for us but balk at a 2.5k video card you will use for at least two years and most likely recoup most of the cost? Does that sum it up?" Me: "It's the principle" Her: "Uh huh" Me: "What does that mean?" Her: "Oh nothing...I just know I wouldn't take the odds of you NOT having this 5090 thing within a couple of months but I could be wrong." Me: "You're wrong" Her: "Right.....ok....sure. Can you hand me the ketchup?" 🤣

I do that quite frequently lol. 🙂 @tps3443 Looking at the MSI markup, it is actually over a **200%** markup over the 4090 ($150->$500) for the Liquid 4090 on top of an already $400 price increase between the 4090 and 5090. Absolutely bonkers.

I wasn't because the Liquid Suprim 4090 was $1749 vs $1599 MSRP (less than 10% markup) for the 4090 so at most I was expecting ~$2200 or even $2250 not a full 100%+ markup over their last difference between MSRP 4090 and Liquid models. Insane. I'll half heartedly take a stab at an FE due to price, flexibility and SFF potential but that's about it and when they drop. At a certain point, you just have to take your foot off the pedal and go, "done!" When a GPU after tax is closer to 3k than 2k it's time to rethink things a bit especially for the smallest jump in performance in 4 generations. Ahhh, ok! Over on the OC forums, you said you had a 14900KS SP112 and I was like, "whoa! When did Foxy get one of those!! I need to take a looksy at the V/F table on that puppy!" 🙂

They could have crammed a more classic PCB into another 3090/4090 retrofit, but they are also forward thinking and redesign it from the ground up. The logic here is with this new design if *IF* TDP goes up to let's say 700-800w, they can increase the fin stack and density towards the 4090 levels potentially a push/pull design to compensate or fall back on the prototype 4090 approach. Additional cynicism, it also makes it harder to put it back together with no signs of tampering for repair claims. --- It really is shaping up to be a Super Super for the 5080 on down but it is a bit more than a Ti/Super on the top but not by much but again, uplifts of 27-43% is nothing to scoff at. The price on the other hand..... I would love to think sales will be lower, but they won't. Enthusiasts and gamers (along with budding AI fans) will snap them up almost immediately. We won't see any downturn in sales for several months once early adopters simmer down. I am almost sure AMD was shocked at Nvidia's pricing and had to do an about face and pump the breaks because they thought Nvidia was going to come in at least $50-100 higher (if not more) across a few price points. This also doesn't bode well for the 9070xt's performance. We know the 7900xtx is going to be more powerful. If it comes in at 7900GRE levels of performance and is over $600 it is DOA. It will need 7900XT levels of performance and be right around $600 or less to be competitive. ----- On another note @Mr. Fox, what's the V/F table on your SP112 14900KS? Curious to see what it's points are. Arrow Lake is a worthy upgrade outside of gaming. Cooler running, new node, new technologies and a better overall performer on average than 14th gen.....just not in games. It is that poor gaming performance that made it DOA for me. I thought the same thing too. Imagine a mid cycle 9090xtx with twice the power and memory...you know, kind of what like Nvidia did with the 5080 and 5090. WHOA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! $2500 for a 5090 Suprim Liquid?! That's $2665USD out of my pocket. Even the 5090 Suprim Air is $2559USD out of my pocket! Even the bottom tier Ventus is 10% higher than MSRP models = almost $2350 out of my pocket. I'm out. I'm not paying that much for a 5090 and quite frankly in hindsight I'm double glad I sold my 4090 and got back what I paid for it which was ~$1900 after tax. Either I get an FE or an MSRP model that I actually desire (I see none so far) or I'm content to rock a 4070 Super, 5070 or discounted 7900xtx. I'd even go for a used, cheaper 4080 Super at this point and be good to go no matter how amazing the 5090 performance is. Those prices are insanity levels! 🤣