*Official Benchmark Thread* - Post it here or it didn't happen :D

[Mr. Fox]

3 minutes ago, Papusan said:

 

 

Regarding binning... I think people get it wrong. They bin "out the worst chips" for the better models. They don't bin for the best chips. Thats a major difference. 

The best of the best are saved for their shills, reviewers and employees. The crap that is left gets installed on the retail leftovers. Cheaper GPUs get the crummy samples and the average chips get put on the more expensive SKUs.

[electrosoft]

4 hours ago, Papusan said:

 

 

Regarding binning... I think people get it wrong. They bin "out the worst chips" for the better models. They don't bin for the best chips. Thats a major difference. 

 

In other words, "We guarantee your chip won't suck that bad but we give no assurances it will be good...."

 

 

[Papusan]

50 minutes ago, electrosoft said:

 

In other words, "We guarantee your chip won't suck that bad but we give no assurances it will be good...."

 

 

Isn't that better than none of the chips being binned?😎 

 

GTX 980Ti - Hwbot Ungine Heaven

https://hwbot.org/submission/5287282_papusan_unigine_heaven___basic_geforce_gtx_980_ti_11968.46_dx9_marks

 

[Mr. Fox]

OUCH! That's got to hurt... calling the balls and strikes... love it.

 

[electrosoft]

On 5/31/2023 at 11:27 PM, Custom90gt said:

 

So far system build wise I'm at

Case: CM NR200

MB: ROG Strix Z790-i

CPU: 13700k

GPU: Evga 3080 Ti FTW3

Ram: Gskill G.SKILL Trident Z5 RGB Series 48GB (2 x 24GB) 7200

SSD: 2TB Hynix Platinum P41 + Intel optane SSD for boot

Power supply: Silverstone SX1000 Platinum

AIO: Arctic Freezer II 280mm

Fans: Arctic P12

 

I'm kind of excited (well I'm always excited to build a new system), this will be my first SFF build

 

Looking forward to the build out especially seeing the NR200 more up close and personal with ideas of slapping the Liquid X in there . The size difference between it and a Dan C4 is in play though. I'm also contemplating a pure AMD portable build as reference 7900XTX's will fit into just about all SFF builds and open up even more options. Dan C4 is just so optimal for the Founders and size overall.

 

I was hemming and hawing over the MSI Z790i edge (Open box $255) and the MSI B650i (Open box $203) and finally settled on the B650i for a few reasons. I have a few extra 12900k's (Still binning for the Clevo NH55) here so the cost of another CPU wasn't the issue.

 

1. Power and heat: 7800X3D runs better and is clearly better than my collection of 12900k chips for gaming.

2. I would like to be able to swap my 7800X3D when I travel as mentioned before. Eventually, when the next AMD X3D chip drops, I could then move it over permanently.

3. Dirt cheap DDR5 6000 sticks give near optimal performance versus IMC fishing for 7600+ and even then for gaming it's just not going to beat the 7800X3D. To even compete, I would really need to build out a 13900k and fish for 7800+

 

I'll be curious to see how far you can push those Z5's in the 2 dimm design of the Strix Z790-i

 

I have an extra EVGA CLC 280 I was planning on using if able if I went with NR200 + FE 4090. If I went Suprim Liquid, then the CPU would have to be air cooled which is very doable with the 7800X3D.

 

So my overall build out would be:

 

Case: CM NR200 or Dan C4

MB: MSI B650i

CPU: 7800X3D

GPU: Suprim Liquid X 4090 or FE 4090 (Potentially 7900XTX)

Ram: Gskill Trident S5 2x16GB 6400

SSD: Any dirt cheap 1 to 2TB will do

Power supply: Corsair SF750

AIO: EVGA CLC 280 (depending on GPU)

Fans: Arctic P12 (I have probably 10-15 of these laying around)

 

 

 

 

[Papusan]

Two in a row. This one on top looks quite bad. I would avoid use the 90/180 degrees adapters. Almost all reports of smoke and fire the last month is with those custom adaters. I don't see burned custom/vanilla 12VHPWR cables anymore. 

 

A real waste of money if you think such adapter will reduce the chance for fire due because it offer minimum bending of cables. And the aesthetics (form over function) won't be as hoped once the smoke have run out. Save your money and rather buy a PSU specific cable adapter from the PSU manufacturer😎

12VHPWR 180 Degree Angled Adapter Melted.

90 degree adapter melted

 

In short... The CableMod custom adaper is a ticking bomb in same way as the AMD server chips😀 AMDS Epic moment.... AMD's EPYC Rome Chips Crash After 1,044 Days of Uptime

[tps3443]

On 6/2/2023 at 2:21 PM, electrosoft said:

 

I have no idea, but here is an unboxing and review(ish) video:

 

 

I'm not sure of the block options or warranty in the US.

 

PCB wise it is middle of the pack at best:

 

 

 

 

 

That’s really interesting. I thought their Galax KFA2 4090SG, and even the KFA2 4080 SG were both the record holder before the HOF models were introduced of course. I see the Strix is #4 on your list, but doesn’t everyone say they suck? I’m so confused. 😭

 

 

 

 

 

[Papusan]

23 minutes ago, tps3443 said:

That’s really interesting. I thought their Galax KFA2 4090SG, and even the KFA2 4080 SG were both the record holder before the HOF models were introduced of course. I see the Strix is #4 on your list, but doesn’t everyone say they suck? I’m so confused. 😭

Put it this way. Asus said they have saved up the best chips for the coming collector model +2500$ Asus 4090 Matrix cards (AIO).

 

In short... The Strix is in the lottery and the low end models get the worst chips. So the best chance to get what to expect is in the low end 🙂

[Mr. Fox]

1 hour ago, tps3443 said:

That’s really interesting. I thought their Galax KFA2 4090SG, and even the KFA2 4080 SG were both the record holder before the HOF models were introduced of course. I see the Strix is #4 on your list, but doesn’t everyone say they suck? I’m so confused. 😭

The Strix 4090 that I RMA'd back to NewEgg was a real piece of <insert 4-letter S-word for feces>. And it was several hundred dollars higher than an average gamer-wuss 4090 price, even though it was an inferior specimen. Extremely disappointing and totally unacceptable. If ASUS guarantees that you'll pay more for something with their name on it, they for damn sure better deliver more in equal or greater measure than the premium suggests. When they don't, then they're just ripping people off and selling defective crap for top dollar.

 

I think that guy making the Galax video has that 4090 confused with the HOF model. He's not looking at a HOF model. That one is actually kind of cheaply made, not a flagship model at all.

[tps3443]

53 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

The Strix 4090 that I RMA'd back to NewEgg was a real piece of <insert 4-letter S-word for feces>. And it was several hundred dollars higher than an average gamer-wuss 4090 price, even though it was an inferior specimen. Extremely disappointing and totally unacceptable. If ASUS guarantees that you'll pay more for something with their name on it, they for damn sure better deliver more in equal or greater measure than the premium suggests. When they don't, then they're just ripping people off and selling defective crap for top dollar.

 

I think that guy making the Galax video has that 4090 confused with the HOF model. He's not looking at a HOF model. That one is actually kind of cheaply made, not a flagship model at all.

The video @electrosoft posted above was made before the HOF 4090 existed, so the 4090 SG was the world record holder at the time. I think the KFA2 4080 SG still is. Unless of course the HOF 4080 wiped it out, I wouldn’t be surprised lol. 
 

I’d love to have a HOF 4080/4090. 

 

 

[ryan]

I think We should have a proper outlet to express concerns about products and get results ( similar to BBB), it really is criminal. reminds me of my msi gs63vr. fans went after 3 months, got replaced and went again after 2-3 months. I called them and was met with a dead end comment of replace the fans.

[Reciever]

1 hour ago, ryan said:

I think We should have a proper outlet to express concerns about products and get results ( similar to BBB), it really is criminal. reminds me of my msi gs63vr. fans went after 3 months, got replaced and went again after 2-3 months. I called them and was met with a dead end comment of replace the fans.

BBB is not a reputable nonprofit nor would I want reviews to be curated by anything approximating the BBB.

 

Reviews are the proper outlet for expressing concerns with a given product. It is the due diligence of the consumer to seek out this information before purchase.

[Papusan]

Here as well. Most of the new 850W PSUs haven't enough 8pin connectors to power up 7900 series AMD graphics cards. What a failure. You need buy their top end models if you want to go with the new and shiny AMD graphics cards. Isn't that cute? bro @Mr. Fox😀 You go with AMD because they offer the cheapest new graphics cards but you have to buy the more expensive PSUs to power them up, LOOL

 

How dificult was it to use the head? You need 3 power connectors for the CPU/MB and 3 for the new AMD cards. And yet, the overpaid enginners couldn't do the math and see this. Blinded by own talent?😕 @ryanwhat is a genius? Some sorts of stupidity?

ENERMAX Brings New PSUs and AIO Liquid Coolers to Computex 2023

Seasonic Shows ATX 3.0 and PCIe Gen5 PSUs, MagFlow Fans, and Goes Industrial at Computex 2023

[electrosoft]

2 hours ago, tps3443 said:

That’s really interesting. I thought their Galax KFA2 4090SG, and even the KFA2 4080 SG were both the record holder before the HOF models were introduced of course. I see the Strix is #4 on your list, but doesn’t everyone say they suck? I’m so confused. 😭

 

 

 

 

 

 

The problem is if the record breakers were provided with targeted/binned samples (which happens with the HOF too btw.) The card you buy from a retailer won't be of the same caliber as the ones handed directly to end game, talented OC'ers, that invalidates everything in regards to comparing off the shelf models with the hand selected silicon and memory given to real competitive benchers to make them shine and make potential buyers think if they order one they'll some of that magic too.

 

Strix isn't a bad card but a better engineered PCB can't compensate for inferior silicon. inferior silicon to me is:

 

Boosting to sub 2725 out of the box

1.1v + max sliders OC hitting sub 3000

Memory sub +1300 is subpar and hitting sub +1000 is absolute garbage.

 

That's why I referenced a tale of two MSI Liquid Suprim X's 4090 I tested. One from Newegg (my current overachiever) and the one from Best Buy (garbage). Two identical cards which ARE performing as advertised out of the box but one ran quieter, cooler, much lower coil whine while boosting to 2800+ / 3100+ GPU and 1600+ mem and the other was barely over 2700 / 2900, +700 on the mem, coil whine out the wazzo and hungrier with higher temps.

 

But did they both perform as advertised by MSI? Absolutely. You are guaranteed 2595mhz and stock mem clocks and that's it.  Even the Strix 4090 OC only guarantees a 2640mhz boost clock.

 

I think we sometimes routinely forget all we're guaranteed is the parts perform as listed and if they do but don't OC as we want them to we claim they are defective and send them back.

 

My two favorite pics from day one still remain: MSI Liquid X 4090 and FE 4090. FE 4090 is locked down hard though for flashing other BIOSes and all models will most likely show up with 1.07v cap so that most likely is a non-starter for you @tps3443. Suprim is purrin' along nicely. The FE 4090 I picked up is still sealed in the hopes I can somehow shoehorn my Suprim into a SFF build and go back and forth for travel.

 

 

2 hours ago, Papusan said:

Put it this way. Asus said they have saved up the best chips for the coming collector model +2500$ Asus 4090 Matrix cards (AIO).

 

In short... The Strix is in the lottery and the low end models get the worst chips. So the best chance to get what to expect is in the low end 🙂

 

Yeah....

 

Unlike the initial launch (just like Intel CPUs), the need to fill orders means the bulk of all chips go out for sales. As time passes, companies can sit back and start binning their silicon for use elsewhere (KS / Matrix) and suddenly cards in the field have worse silicon especially the $1600 level models (unless you're Nvidia and their FE cards).

 

If I was an Asus fan and bought a Strix thinking it was the best I might be a bit salty but looking at their heirarchy, Strix line is  top of the middle or lower end top end.

 

The idea of paying +$400 over I would expect more but as mentioned above all you are guaranteed is 2640mhz boost and stock mem out of the box along with a nicely engineered PCB and large and in charge cooler.

 

 

[Raiderman]

1 hour ago, Papusan said:

Here as well. Most of the new 850W PSUs haven't enough 8pin connectors to power up 7900 series AMD graphics cards. What a failure. You need buy their top end models if you want to go with the new and shiny AMD graphics cards. Isn't that cute? bro @Mr. Fox😀 You go with AMD because they offer the cheapest new graphics cards but you have to buy the more expensive PSUs to power them up, LOOL

 

How dificult was it to use the head? You need 3 power connectors for the CPU/MB and 3 for the new AMD cards. And yet, the overpaid enginners couldn't do the math and see this. Blinded by own talent?😕 @ryanwhat is a genius? Some sorts of stupidity?

ENERMAX Brings New PSUs and AIO Liquid Coolers to Computex 2023

Seasonic Shows ATX 3.0 and PCIe Gen5 PSUs, MagFlow Fans, and Goes Industrial at Computex 2023

The EVGA 1000w supernova I bought for my build came with plenty of 8 pin connector cables. I wouldnt call it an expensive PSU by any means. I think it was $139 at the Egg.

I did buy some 180 degree 8 pin adapters from China, and they are still sitting in their respective shipping bags.

[Papusan]

2 hours ago, electrosoft said:

But did they both perform as advertised by MSI? Absolutely. You are guaranteed 2595mhz and stock mem clocks and that's it.  Even the Strix 4090 OC only guarantees a 2640mhz boost clock.

The idea of paying +$400 over I would expect more but as mentioned above all you are guaranteed is 2640mhz boost and stock mem out of the box along with a nicely engineered PCB and large and in charge cooler.

 

 

Yep, because the highest boost clocks they want massive premium. 

 

https://hwbot.org/submission/5287902_papusan_3dmark03_geforce_gtx_980_ti_332710_marks?recalculate=true

 

37 minutes ago, Raiderman said:

The EVGA 1000w supernova I bought for my build came with plenty of 8 pin connector cables. I wouldnt call it an expensive PSU by any means. I think it was $139 at the Egg.

I did buy some 180 degree 8 pin adapters from China, and they are still sitting in their respective shipping bags.

Thats a grea price and a nice PSU. Close to 250$ on Evga. But out of stock

https://www.evga.com/products/product.aspx?pn=220-P3-1000-X1

[Mr. Fox]

4 hours ago, electrosoft said:

The idea of paying +$400 over I would expect more but as mentioned above all you are guaranteed is 2640mhz boost and stock mem out of the box along with a nicely engineered PCB and large and in charge cooler.

They don't deserve to get away with that. If they were an honest company they wouldn't charge more and say "Oh sorry, too bad you drew a short straw in the lottery. But, thank you for the extra $400, we really appreciate it. It sucks to be you. Better luck next time loser."

 

No. They would give you what you paid for. Only an idiot would intentionally pay more for a pretty GPU and a nice PCB that performed poorly.  But, as we've all seen time and time again, they are not an honest company. All of the recent media attention highlighted that fact and it's all very accurate. They suck. I'm glad the chickens are finally coming home to roost. I hope they get covered in so much chicken poop that they suffocate. They should change their name from ASUS to ASUC.

[Papusan]

GTX 980Ti - 3DM 2001

 

https://hwbot.org/submission/5287966_papusan_3dmark2001_se_geforce_gtx_980_ti_214790_marks

[Etern4l]

Jensen's greed is killing the PC market. 

 

 

Meanwhile, it turns out that building water-hungry chip factories in the desert can lead to water shortages (for the population rather than the tech giants):

 

Arizona Limits Construction Around Phoenix as Its Water Supply Dwindles

 

Edit: at least Intel claims they will offset their water usage via reclamation projects, TSMC could be another story.

 

[electrosoft]

12 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

They don't deserve to get away with that. If they were an honest company they wouldn't charge more and say "Oh sorry, too bad you drew a short straw in the lottery. But, thank you for the extra $400, we really appreciate it. It sucks to be you. Better luck next time loser."

 

No. They would give you what you paid for. Only an idiot would intentionally pay more for a pretty GPU and a nice PCB that performed poorly.  But, as we've all seen time and time again, they are not an honest company. All of the recent media attention highlighted that fact and it's all very accurate. They suck. I'm glad the chickens are finally coming home to roost. I hope they get covered in so much chicken poop that they suffocate. They should change their name from ASUS to ASUC.

 

Agreed, Asus is giving you exactly what is promised on the specs and box with the illusion you are getting a superior product for +$400 when the core of what could make it better (binned GPU/Mem) is just off the shelf and lottery is in almost full play.

 

On one hand, they really aren't lying per se. You are only guaranteed a slightly higher boost clock of 2640mhz which just about every 4090 hits anyhow. I don't think I've ever seen a 4090 NOT boost to at least 2650 even the bottom barrel specimens. Memory really is a, "it is what it is."

 

I'll be curious to see if their Matrix line truly has better chips. Due to the cost, I don't think we'll see someone grab many of them and bin them for statistical data like igor's with Intel chips.

 

I'd also love to see a company in the mold of Silicon Lottery take a crack at GPUs. Playing the silicon lottery is fun till you lose big Vegas style.

 

 

[Mr. Fox]

7 hours ago, Etern4l said:

Jensen's greed is killing the PC market. 

 

He's not wrong. He is saying what we have said and thought, and complained about.

 

7 hours ago, Etern4l said:

Meanwhile, it turns out that building water-hungry chip factories in the desert can lead to water shortages (for the population rather than the tech giants):

 

Arizona Limits Construction Around Phoenix as Its Water Supply Dwindles

Hard to know whether that's just lefty tree-huggers trying to make an environmental mountain out of a mole hill, like they always do, or just fresh clickbait to feed the sheeple zombie horde. Arizona has historically been governed by level-headed conservatives, but things have gotten extraordinarily goofy under the brain-dead "leadership" of the new illegitimate governor, who is also an open-border sanctuary, alphabet-friendly witch with an agenda.  We've had record setting rain and the water table is looking good. But, I think we do need to stop selling our water to California. Their need is not our problem. Maybe if they stopped  talking about idiotic things like reparations for stuff that happened a century+ before the proposed recipients and their great grandparents were born, and wasting billions on idiotic socialist programs, they would have time and money to spend money on the sea water desalinization plants they've been talking about for decades and have some water to sell on top of meeting their own needs.

 

Can't fix stupid, but you can certainly kill it. Maybe someday the dumb dumbs will figure out that a vote is a terrible thing to waste. (Probably not, because they're dumb LOL.) 

[electrosoft]

First look at Matrix PCB and it is identical to the Strix. De8auer is guessing they're just binning Strix cards for the Matrix cards.....

 

Edit: Actual differences here (new temp sensors in unison with Asus software), MPS power stages but still same rating, different inductors with significantly less coil whine.

 

 

 

Of more interest, is the OC LN testing and especially Asus in house, "Boost Master" software that allows it to exceed normal voltage/power limits....hmmmm.

 

 

 

[Mr. Fox]

2 minutes ago, electrosoft said:

First look at Matrix PCB and it is identical to the Strix. De8auer is guessing they're just binning Strix cards for the Matrix cards.....

 

 

I feel bad for all of the trusting people that wasted their money, and didn't think fast enough to RMA to get it back. Maybe they're not lying in the truest sense of what that means, but the marketing and the representation of something that the buyer has been led to believe is something better and isn't, and charging a huge extra premium consistent with such a misrepresented expectation, might actually be worse than simply lying. It's a carefully crafted campaign intended to defraud and deceive. If that were not their intent their not-so-special, special overpriced trash would be sold at the normally inflated price of their not-special competitor products. They can only get away with the buyer beware approach for so long. Eventually they'll need to pay for their crimes.

[electrosoft]

3 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

I feel bad for all of the trusting people that wasted their money, and didn't think fast enough to RMA to get it back. Maybe they're not lying in the truest sense of what that means, but the marketing and the representation of something that the buyer has been led to believe is something better and isn't, and charging a huge extra premium consistent with such a misrepresented expectation, might actually be worse than simply lying. It's a carefully crafted campaign intended to defraud and deceive. If that were not their intent their not-so-special, special overpriced trash would be sold at the normally inflated price of their not-special competitor products. They can only get away with the buyer beware approach for so long. Eventually they'll need to pay for their crimes.

 

I updated my post, but I am most curious about the Asus in house Boost Master software. Does it come with the Matrix? Or is the card locked and the software is only available to select users? Will it work elsewhere?

 

If the best OC'ers consistently have access to these items and tools, it will never be a level playing field.

 

 

[Mr. Fox]

1 hour ago, electrosoft said:

 

I updated my post, but I am most curious about the Asus in house Boost Master software. Does it come with the Matrix? Or is the card locked and the software is only available to select users? Will it work elsewhere?

 

If the best OC'ers consistently have access to these items and tools, it will never be a level playing field.

 

 

I think we should be careful to stop calling them "the best overclockers" because that's not what they are. At least that's not what many of them are. They are merely the endowed and the funded overclockers who have been chosen for that special treatment program. They do not possess special knowledge or skills. They possess special products and supporting equipment that someone else is paying for and nobody else has access to.

 

Maybe the extra $400+ premium paid by Strix buyers and the extra $150+ premium paid by TUF buyers that basically got nothing in return for it except a bloody wallet, is where they got all the extra money to make that ugly Matrix abortion what the Strix should have been. And, of course, still charge more for the Matrix than what it is worth as well, and accomplish that through equally obnoxious and misleading marketing. Might even sell a few silicon duds and excuse it with a "better luck next time sucker" approach. They only need to produce enough good ones to go around to their chosen group of shills. The general public doesn't deserve to receive anything special, they should only be expected to pay for something special.