win32asmguy
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Everything posted by win32asmguy
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Yes, Throttlestop 9.5 to adjust the power limit. As far as IA AC/DC LoadLine it can be modified by an EFI setup variable (just like the undervolting guide uses for Config Lock/ Underclocking Lock) setup_var CpuSetup 0x132 0xAA # set IA AC LoadLine LSB to 170 (1.7mOhms) setup_var CpuSetup 0x133 0x0 # set IA AC LoadLine MSB to 0
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The Precision 7770 arrived yesterday. Everything great other than CPU performance. CBR23 Multi is ~17000 with e-cores enabled, ~12000 with e-cores disabled. There was thermal throttling limiting the system to 85W, so I repasted with Phobya Nanogrease Extreme and it is slightly better and throttles around 92W. There is still a contact issue as core temperature deltas are still 15C. The good news is the bios setup variables are not write-locked so we can enable UV and tune other settings as needed. I already noted that IA AC/DC LoadLine was incorrectly set to 4.0/1.7 mOhms, so I adjusted it to 1.7/1.7 which is essentially Intel baseline value and the same as the Thinkpad P16. That improved CBR23 scores by about 8%.
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If you are in the USA you can try signing up for a stock notification from the MSI Store directly: https://us-store.msi.com/Laptops/content-creation/creatorpro-series/CreatorPro-X17-A12UMS-057 If you do manage to get one do you mind testing the TB4 video outputs on it and see if they connect to the integrated or dedicated graphics? I am also curious if the default keyboard backlight scheme is just plain white so it can be used in an office environment without any config override needed. I am also curious if the memory can operate at 4800MT/s in a one dimm per channel configuration (two sticks total max 64GB). That would set it apart from the Thinkpad P16 which is 4000MT/s regardless of how many modules are installed.
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From what I understand some chips leak more power under load than others. This is similar to the measurement Nvidia used to report as ASIC quality on their GPU's. It is very hard to measure on a laptop without access to VR VOUT monitoring other than just observing a chip running hotter than others for no other reason. You can also measure a voltage variance between the same SKU. Some 12950HX can operate at 4.2ghz at 0.950v while others may need 1.150v. Obviously the ones that need more voltage to be stable at a frequency will consume more power to do the same work, or do less work at the same power / thermal limit cap.
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Does your Windows 11 environment have core isolation / VBS disabled?
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There is a video discussing DTR-related issues on the GT77: Maybe the CreatorPro X17 is better though in both some hardware differences and software improvements. I am curious if it has a membrane keyboard instead of the mechanical used on the GT77. I am also curious if any of the display outputs are wired to the Intel GPU in hybrid mode.
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*Official Benchmark Thread* - Post it here or it didn't happen :D
win32asmguy replied to Mr. Fox's topic in Desktop Hardware
They had one model WT75 with modular CPU and GPU. It came with a Quadro GPU but could take the MSI 1070 MXM card. Sadly no supplementary power connector so ~180W was its limit with a modded VBIOS. 9900k could go up to 200W with IMON_SLOPE hacks but I only had a single 330W instead of dual 230W so no idea if it could support that in combined loads. It even had a MUX so it could get 5 hours of battery life in iGPU mode with some tuning. Alot of people hated on its 120hz FHD TN panel but it was a good panel with great response times given the other options at the time. The NH55J is more powerful, sure, but the feature set of the WT75 was so much better. -
No SSD door on mine. But it is in production now. Maybe the bottom panels on Taobao/eBay were from a different production run or something, it is hard to even say if the fitment is correct without trying one.
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- dell precision 7770
- dell precision 7670
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Hmmm. Maybe they had a bad batch of bottom panels produced and they had to have their supplier run a new production of corrected versions. It could explain why almost every 7770/7670 has not entered production yet.
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I got the SlimQ 240W charger. It works ok with the NH55JNNQ although the barrel connector is slightly loose when plugged in. It has the added advantage of USB-C charging, so I can use it to charge my 13 inch MBP which I also carry as Hackintoshing is not possible with the newer laptops. Its a shame they do not have a custom tip for the X170 series, would make a very lightweight 480W travel power adapter kit with two of them. I also caved and bought a regular US keyboard layout from China for $50, as Eurocom was unresponsive. Still have not delidded the 12900k. sigh. Spent most of our weekends taking day trips. Even today decided to drive up to Estes Park in Colorado which is about an hour from where we live.
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G-Sync is supported on external displays. On the internal panel, adaptive sync should work fine if enabled via the Intel Command Center app. I do not have a HDMI 2.1 capable display so I cannot test that out.
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I tried the Razer Core X last night and confirmed it does not charge the laptop. There was also a bios update this morning so I applied it; still no USB-C charging working. It might still be enabled via a future bios update. I do not have any Lenovo branded USB-C chargers to test unfortunately, in case there have a charger white list.
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I also tried a Dell display that supports 65W USB-C power delivery at the office. The only other device I have is a Razer Core X eGPU that I can test tonight. It is possible the hardware support is present for but it needs a bios update for it to be enabled.
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I have bad news. I do not think the P16 supports charging the battery (while powered off) or operation off of USB-C power sources. So you must use the AC Adapter. I tested it with the Apple 96W (20.5v 4.7a) USB-C AC Adapter. There is also a post from a Lenovo rep about the P15 Gen 2 last year saying the same thing. I believe there is an aftermarket 240W GAN brick with a compatible tip if you are looking to reduce the total travel weight.
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It can run Linux fine as I do on mine. I am guessing what they did here was all calculated to increase the entertainment value. The sad part is NONE of the big Youtube personalities / influencers can really give Clevo laptops with LGA sockets a fair shake, other than maybe derbauer. They don't even understand the point which is to leverage the socket to utilize high quality silicon.
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Yep. I also tried modifying the EFI setup variables (Overclocking Lock/Config Lock) to enable it, no dice as writes just result in a failure. I think it may be something about this being WM690 chipset, or maybe I missed disabling one of the dozen security related features in the bios.
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Added information about the fans above.
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I added a thread. Sorry I forgot to put in observations about fan noise.
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This is a place to discuss Lenovo's high end mobile workstation for 2022, which replaces the P15 Gen 2, P17 Gen 2 and T15g Gen 2. PSREF Link Pro/Con list vs. other options: HX CPU performance Thinkpad P16 - PL1/PL2 set at 157W. CBR23 22,700 observed. CPU thermal throttles with stock settings and factory paste job. P-core temperature deltas observed 12C. Overclocking/Undervolting is locked by default in the bios. e-cores cannot be disabled in the bios. Precision 7770 - PL1 85W/PL2 157W. GPU Performance Thinkpad P16 - No Geforce GPU option. RTX A4500 reported as 130W in Nvidia Control Panel, PSREF states 115W. Timespy Graphics ~9700. There may be a bug limiting the GPU performance, usually switching between High/Balanced power modes will fix it for now. Precision 7770 - RTX 3080 Ti - 140W Memory Thinkpad P16 - Uses DDR5 SODIMM modules, limited to 4000MT regardless of what is installed. High performance kits from Kingston/GSkill may be able to reduce latency over factory modules Precision 7770 - Uses proprietary CAMM module. Will add more gathered details later. Storage Thinkpad P16 - Two M.2 PCIe Gen 4 slots. Primary slot is connected via PCH and therefore shares DMI bandwidth to the CPU with all other devices (TB4, Wifi, USB) (note: I need to verify the second slot is not connected via the other CPU x4 Gen4 lanes) Precision 7770 - Need to verify information TB4 Thinkpad P16 - Video output only via Nvidia GPU if one is present. The TB4 PCIe lanes are connected to the PCH and share DMI bandwidth with other devices like storage, wifi, usb Precision 7770 - Video output via Nvidia or Intel selected via bios option. Fans Thinkpad P16 - They appear to always be running at a low speed, at least when plugged in via AC. No high pitched whistle and slow ramp up/down which can cause initial thermal throttling under a sustained load. No initial noise when the fans turn on. Precision 7770 - Reported to shut fans off fully at idle, and has a whoosh noise when they turn on. There is custom software to work around this effect and I am sure it is something that could be addressed in a BIOS/EC update eventually.
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It can burst as high as 157W but is still thermally limited. Sustained it can only maintain 85W. There is 12C core temperature deltas so a repaste could help. The A4500 should be 115W with 15W of dynamic boost. The Precision does have a superior hardware configuration for my use case as it allows running the internal display and both TB4 ports driven by the Intel GPU. On the P16 every video output is directly connected to the Nvidia GPU, other than the Internal display which has a MUX option in the bios. Sadly this information can be hard to discover on new models. I think the Precision can also run up to 64GB memory at 4800MT, but the Lenovo forces any memory configuration to 4000MT even with two memory slots unpopulated. Maybe some higher performance DDR5 SODIMMS can be used, at least, to reduce latency and get it closer to where we were at with high performance DDR4 SODIMMS.
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Yeah, maybe the coupon I used was not meant to be applied to that model. Its odd because the similar configured 7670 on the Dell US site is about 2000usd more expensive. My own testing.
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The Thinkpad P16 can reach 22,700 in Cinebench R23 with the 12900HX. The RTX A4500 is about 10%-15% slower in Timespy (~9700 Graphics Score) vs ~11,000 for the Precision 7770 3080Ti. It is also significantly less expensive as the config was 3200usd (including 2x32GB memory, 1TB SSD, 4k IPS) with a coupon. It sounds like the fan behavior may also be better, as there is no on/off cycle issues. It is easily just as quiet as the Dell 7560/7760. There is only two storage slots, but I guess those 8TB drives would work so you could atleast get 16TB in it which is not bad.
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They do have some great coupons for their workstations. For instance, the Thinkpad P16 can be had for ~$3200 after coupon with 12900HX, 64GB memory, 1TB ssd, RTX A4500 (pro version of 3070Ti), and a 4k 16:10 panel. Significantly cheaper than Dell/HP/MSI laptops that have Alder Lake and can take 128GB of memory. I also appreciate the Windows 10 support for that model, maybe the same for the Legion 7i Gen7 but it seems like most of the other manufacturers have dropped support for it.
