win32asmguy
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Everything posted by win32asmguy
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To me anything labeled as a DTR should be as modular as one might find an ITX board. So modular cpu, gpu, memory, storage, wifi. The closest for Alder Lake would be high end mobile workstations from Dell, HP and Lenovo. The NH55JNNQ could have also fit the bill if they had a model without any Nvidia GPU.
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They gave me that keyboard as well. It is UK English. Still have an open support ticket asking the correct one to be shipped to me.
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Mine took three days to build and ship. It was in transit with UPS Ground for a week, traveling from Montreal, clearing customs, to Colorado. Its odd that the QHD screens were backordered. Sager has had all of the BGA 12700H 15 inch models from Clevo in stock that use the same screen for a month now. Those BGA models also have a functional MUX switch too which is very frustrating.
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Yeah, with Throttlestop it should be possible to lock the limits as high as the EC allows. I don't expect to get the same as gaming machines allow, like the GT77 157W CPU / 75W+175W Combined, just because this is a business system and needs to be more conservative. Although I would hope with improved thermals and a vapor chamber we can get a higher CPU limit as the cooling system isn't biased towards both CPU and GPU in operation. Its a shame, because the gaming systems have become so gaudy and are either high performance and plastic chassis, or thin and light but better build quality. There are also issues with running Windows 10 and even Linux on those systems so the business models have some advantages.
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The upgrade price is the cost of a complete NH55JNNQ system board with the BGA 3070Ti.
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@Aaron44126Was the rep particularly pushy about selling a warranty upgrade with the system? I spoke to one and he quoted the same price with or without a very expensive warranty package. They quoted me $4000 for the following: 12950HX 32GB Non-ECC CAMM DDR5-4800 256GB SSD 3080Ti FHD 60hz 100% DCI-P3 with FHD non-IR camera Non-backlit keyboard (whoops) No SSD door/Security devices Windows 10 Pro 96W Battery 4 year ProSupport Hopefully the sustained CPU TDP with the GPU idle is much higher than 75W. As far as combined loads, 65W+150W would be great, but my guess is not enough headroom with the 240W power brick.
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- dell precision 7770
- dell precision 7670
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Nice! Did the Dell rep happen to have more details on the sustained CPU power limits?
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If I recall there is a Lenovo Legion 7 with 6900hx and 6850m using a unified vapor chamber in the works. It should support 64GB DDR5 and would likely be able to swap in a 1920x1200 16 inch 165hz panel. The unified vapor chamber is nice because in pure CPU loads it is very overbuilt. If the Strix had a better factory LM job I am sure it would be scoring as good or better than the GT77. It is a shame that they only offer the vapor chamber on the 3080Ti config...
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He got pretty lucky with the paste job if he can sustain 160W on the 12900HX. The phase change pad on the GE76 12900HK had very high core temp differentials.
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Yes it is pretty quiet in general. Even with the 3080Ti at 175W and 12950HX at 50W running a game. Throttlestop has everything available. XTU also supports manipulation of almost everything except memory related stuff. XTU even lets you customize the VF Curve voltage offsets. I have heard that AMD is more efficient at lower wattages. The Clevo can do the same but you need to be willing to spend the time to find a good CPU and ensure it has a good paste application and potentially delid as well. Nothing formal so far, but I will say that neither machine has full Windows 10 support. The Clevo could really be a winner if it had a MUX and we had access to a shop like silicon lottery where you can buy better bin CPUs easily. I do prefer 17 inch screens but prefer FHD which the Scar does not have. The scar also has some pretty crappy bios bugs out of the box. In order to boot linux, it has to have both USB-C ports unplugged and the thumbdrive in the bottom USB-A port or else there is not enough free memory in the first 4GB address range for the kernel to live in. So basically it is very much a "designed for Windows 11" machine.
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E-cores enabled: 55W PL1/PL2 15064 Core temps: 65C fans 2000rpm Ambient temps 76F E-cores disabled: 90W PL1/PL2 14748 Core temps: 65C fans 3000rpm Ambient temps 76F
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Maybe ZtecPC could be convinced to bin the CPU on the Strix Scar 17 SE if they sell them. I am sure there are customers who would pay extra money for a known good sample, especially if they are repasting them or doing other mods already.
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It is still missing options that would make me consider it on par with their Strix desktop boards. No PL1/PL2 config, No fan table config, No RGB config or atleast a disable override, No MUX switch config. So basically you still are tied to Armory Crate in Windows. The RGB gets reset to the default rainbow preset with a bios update, so you probably want to always keep it around even with services disabled, unless there are Linux tools that have reverse engineered Asus Strix RGB protocols so it can configured that way. There is a bios option to enable/disable the boot up sound at least. With e-cores disabled the P-cores can sustain 4.2ghz. There is thermal throttling and core differences between 87C-96C so it settles on pulling 142W. So it may not have a great LM job from the factory. I saw up to 17400 CBR23.
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Sure, let me know a specific benchmark and I will try and run it. This morning I tried booting up a Fedora 36 Live USB but ran into an error: error: ../../grub-core/kern/mm.c:376:out of memory. Best I can tell it happens on certain laptops and is related to either the TPM (which is bad because there is no bios option to disable that), or Intel VMD being enabled (the factory config is Raid 0 SSD's). So now I am looking at making an Asus restore image so I can reinstall without VMD/Raid0 configured.
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Yep, it arrived and definitely can outperform the NH55JNNQ just because of the higher power limits. Interestingly enough applying an undervolt to P-cache also crashes the system so that issue isn't related to Clevo. I am not sure if the Strix is designed to use both power sources at the same time, or could take advantage of the Eurocom 780W brick for that matter. I did post a thread for that model in the Asus sub section as well, so we can discuss about it.
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Review (in progress): Chassis: The chassis is a metal lid, plastic palm rest and plastic bottom panel. No creaking and the palm rest remains relatively cool. The membrane keyboard is full sized including a number pad. The keys have good travel and are quiet. The layout is not cramped nor are any keys abnormally small. The trackpad feels like a glass surface and has support for the usual gestures which seem to work fine. No strange rattles when tapping / clicking. Display: It is a 240hz QHD panel identified as BOE NE173QHM-NZ2, 8 bit color 99% DCI-P3, and supports Adaptive Sync in hybrid mode but not GSync in dedicated mode. It also supports operating at 60hz to conserve battery. CPU: 12950HX with 8 P-cores and 8 E-cores. It has 175W PL2 and 170W PL1 and scores 23,400 out of the box in Cinebench R23 Multi. There is thermal throttling at those power limits. GPU: Pretty fast. Time Spy score is 13584. I am trying to find a game that stresses CPU and GPU to confirm the max combined load limits. SSD: By default it shipped in a RAID configuration. My hope is that one of the drive slots is Gen 5 connected directly to CPU PCIe lanes, but I need to reinstall to determine this. The stock drives were Micron 3400 1TB Gen4. Video Output Support: Thunderbolt 4 connected to Integrated GPU USB-C connected to Nvidia GPU (GSync supported) HDMI connected to Nvidia GPU Sleep Modes: It appears to support both S0 Modern Standby and S3 Standby according to Windows 11 powercfg. I will need to test if it can properly resume in S3 mode. Noise: Very quiet in all modes. I need to test more though.
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This is Asus's flagship gaming laptop for 2022 using Intel 12th Gen HX BGA CPU's. https://rog.asus.com/us/laptops/rog-strix/rog-strix-scar-17-se-2022-series/ Notable features: Full sized vapor chamber for CPU and GPU 12950HX with 175W PL2 and 170W PL1 Nvidia RTX 3080 Ti 150W+25W Dynamic Boost Combined 230W CPU+GPU TDP Reduced size 330W power brick (maybe GAN?) with barrel connector 240hz QHD 99% DCIP3 17 inch display Dual DDR5-4800 sodimm slots Dual M.2 PCIe Gen4 slots M.2 2230 slot for Wifi AMI BIOS Features: Disable E-cores P-Core undervolting Set P-Core multipliers Enable overclocking More information to come!
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If its Throttlestop, it reads the register value back out after its applied so you will see it in the FIVR window. You can also enable logging to record voltages measured under load. On average they should consistently drop if it is working.
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Already tried them, sadly nothing has worked so far. # Eurocom Raptor X15 BIOS 1.07.05 / EC 1.07.04 CpuSetup 0x22f 0x0 # works, disable E-cores CpuSetup 0x43 0x0 # works, disable Config Lock CpuSetup 0x10 0x0 # works, disable Overclocking Lock CpuSetup 0x1d9 0x1 # works, enable Overclocking Feature (XTU can install now, etc) # Advanced -> Overclocking Performance Menu -> Processor CpuSetup 0x1e0 0x32 # not working, set 50mv P-core+E-core+P-cache voltage offset CpuSetup 0x1e2 0x1 # not working, set P-core voltage offset to negative mode CpuSetup 0x2b2 0x32 # not working, set 50mv E-cache offset CpuSetup 0x2b4 0x1 # not working, set E-cache voltage offset to negative mode CpuSetup 0x18d 0x1 # unknown, set selected memory profile to custom # Advanced -> Cpu Voltage CpuSetup 0x379 0x1 # unknown, enable Clevo Cpu Voltage feature? CpuSetup 0x37d 0x32 # unknown, set 50mv P-core+E-core+P-cache voltage offset CpuSetup 0x37f 0x1 # unknown, set P-core voltage offset to negative mode There is a bunch of duplicate menu items in the dump so I spent time trying combinations of both. With the first set, you can enable undervolting (so long as you have a K-series processor), but with E-cores enabled Throttlestop or QuickCPU always triggers a crash applying P-cache offset. I would suggest also to ask your reseller to provide you their variant of the 1.07.05 BIOS and 1.07.04 EC, if Eurocom has it (as of 4/16/22) then they should be able to get it from Clevo as well! I wish more resellers were like XMG and just post the updates when they are available instead of making it by request only. Sadly XMG opted not to carry the NH55JNNQ so we can't use their site as a resource.
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Delid may be enough to keep it out of thermal throttling for day to day use without an undervolt I would hope. I put my locked 12900 back in just to try and compare the two against each other again. The 12900k is 2% faster without an undervolt, but 10% faster with -100mv. The sad part is the bios still has no way to apply the undervolt, and Throttlestop causes the crash/reboot, so its kind of a moot thing for day to day use. I am also uncertain if Eurocom is willing to make a new bios with undervolting properly enabled, but given they offer the 12900k it is worth a shot. The Strix should arrive soon. This model seems to have the best cooling and VRM setup I have seen out of the BGA HX chips. Technically the Precision 7770 has a much nicer chassis to me, but Dell has always been conservative on power limits in the past so I doubt it would have PL1 above 100W. The 240W power brick in the specs is also a telltale sign. MSI likes to make cooling systems biased towards GPU I have found. The 12700H also needs much more power and cooling than 90% of the laptops it is used in provide, not to mention a perfect paste job which is very rare from a factory stock unit. At least you can do some easy tuning in the bios via the hidden advanced menu unlock, that is something unique to MSI that sets their models apart.
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I tried setting the MUX switch to dedicated only mode but it disabled the internal screen. Either the hardware switch is only present on certain NH5x models, or the custom code in the bios to configure the hardware switch is disabled or not present. If the same hardware switch is used in the BGA Alder Lake laptops Clevo launched, the code to configure the switch may be backported into the NH5x bios in a new release as well. @Nico3110 How is the 12900T? Have you ran any benchmarks to determine max performance and power draw, with Throttlestop overriding power limits? I had a thought that maybe these chips were binned by Intel as low leak, low pull given the lower target TDP and turbo limits.
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Yeah that Newegg one seems to be the best. It can also make it through a single CBR23 run without thermal throttling, even without an undervolt. If I have it delidded I would probably just send it off to rockitcool and have them do it. As far as the Strix Scar 17 SE goes, this video I found was far more informative than the Dave2D video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15gfwhm7SJ4&t=400s MSI has made some of the best and worst laptops I have used. The WT75 was amazing. MXM GPU and LGA CPU. Ran on a single 330W brick but could also take dual bricks for more power draw. Unlocked bios via the hidden key combo. It had a MUX and could get 5 hours of battery life with tuning even as a 17 inch DTR. Now, MSI is too concerned about competing with other manufacturers and the type of machines they make. Every single one of them also has had obnoxious high pitched fan whistle under any kind of load. They have also decided to invent bizarre keyboard layouts that makes switching between a desktop keyboard and their laptop very painful.
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The Newegg 12900k is still better at the same UV: 23892 -100mv VID 0.951 at 42x 131.1W (from Throttlestop logs) This may sound odd but I also ordered one of those new Asus Strix Scar 17 SE's, with the BGA 12950HX. The Asus rep said PL1 is 160W and PL2 is 175W on CPU-only loads. I like the idea of the vapor chamber because even if the 3080Ti is inactive, it should be able to evenly distribute load from the CPU to all available fin stacks. I don't really have deep pockets, most of what I buy just gets resold at a loss a few months later. Luckily I bought property in Colorado back in 2010 when the market was still recovering so my housing expenses are not bad. I tend to do handyman work myself too which I think saves a bit. I never really cared much for new cars / boats / big campers. I also pack lunches and brew coffee myself which saves money too!
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The 12900ks is not so great so far in testing. 20736 at 0mv 21766 at -50mv 21983 at -75mv 22178 at -100mv All pull around 136W when under load. At -100mv it can make it through a run without thermal throttle. This one was also pasted with TG Hydronaut because that was all they had a Micro Center. Nanogrease should arrive this week which may help.
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Maybe they just had a website issue and had to restore from a backup. It is back again today. On that note, I should tell Eurocom the Raptor X15 can boot the 12900ks just fine.
