win32asmguy

Yeah, it was like this from the factory. The previous m18 I had last month also had Delta fans and the same noise. I would like to try a version with the Sunon fans but the challege is getting the part number and ordering it because the reps do not usually give out this information or allow selection of a specific brand when getting a warranty replacement. Usually spare parts sales reps will sell you the part if you already know the number. Attached is a picture of the Delta version heatsink. The part number sticker is located under the rear IO cover.

Does anyone here happen to have an m18 R1 with 4080+ and the Sunon or FCN fan heatsink? I am troubleshooting some fan whistle (any RPM, louder as RPM increases). Mine has the Delta fans, part number 27GFC for the whole unit. Also its possibly an interaction between the bottom panel venting cuts as the whistle is not present with the bottom panel removed.

@iieeann I would suggest resetting to factory defaults in the current bios and then trying again. If it still does not work maybe try removing bottom panel, disconnecting the battery and then holding the power button for 30 seconds (they call it draining residual flea power). Dell does have this "force a bios update" process, but ideally the normal process would work first: https://www.dell.com/support/kbdoc/en-us/000134938/forcing-a-bios-update-without-the-ac-adapter-attached-on-a-dell-laptop

I tested both stock Windows 11 Pro OEM install (by Dell) and also a clean install Windows 10 Pro which basically test the same for GPU score. For CPU score Windows 10 Pro is indeed superior. Do you have VBS/HVCI disabled in Windows 11, and Turbo Boost 3.0 disabled (allowing GPU Dynamic Boost) in the bios, and GPU Memory ECC disabled? Those could potentially effect performance. You would probably want to run the test while recording GPU Power used, to ensure its using 135-140W under load. There is a small variance in silicon quality but I would suspect that at the same TGP and temperature an RTX 5000 Ada should always be higher performance than a RTX 4000 Ada. I will say that I would not be surprised if there is a Dynamic Boost bug as those have existed in the past models, 7770 for instance with 3080Ti could not go beyond 130W without overriding power limts using certain drivers, despite being advertised as "150W TGP" in Nvidia Control Panel.

Ok, I think power is limited somewhat in balanced / optimized, so you might want to try "Ultra Performance" and see if it improves. I would expect your system to get around 17k in Timespy Graphics at around 135-140W. Also if possible you could contact 3dmark support and ask them to whitelist the RTX 5000 Ada GPU as it is new and hidden by default. You can check if they fixed it by opening the link you posted in an incognito window.

I would say it is not improved in that regard. It uses the same cooling solution and fan tables. With the system repasted, and the performance mode set to "Cool" to force the fans on, the CPU is around 45-50C and keyboard I guess is around 30C, with 21C ambient temp.

Yeah my Timespy results are running default settings. You may want to monitor temps on yours to see if it reaches 87C on the GPU which will trigger short throttles which can lower the score. https://www.3dmark.com/spy/38088494

It has been a few days and so far it seems like CBR23 Multi has gone up slightly (best seen was 29,900) and CBR23 Single can now sustain 5.5ghz, scoring 2150. Also Timespy Graphics scores 16,600 which is up a bit as well. I also got the bios dumped, and tried to do some undervolting which was not successful. The "undervolt protection" remains enabled regardless of the value set to the hidden UEFI variable similar to the experience reported on the XPS 17. Setting voltage offsets for P-cores also did not have any effect. I also tried modifying AC/DC LL to both 1.35 which did not boost scores any.

The other 4 SODIMM systems all perform a bit worse if you are only using two SODIMMs. Basically they operate at 4000MT/s regardless of what faster speeds are supported, with the exception of the GT77 where with the advanced bios you can override the behavior (but also greatly increase boot time). With the Precision 7780 and the CAMM to SODIMM interposer it can boot 64GB Kingston Fury at DDR5-5200 CL38. The same motherboard can also take a 128GB CAMM module if capacity is needed over speed. Of course, it is probably a moot point in terms of performance uplift because this system is also limited by its small cooler, lack of undervolting support, low GPU TGP, 240W power brick, and lack of fan speed control.

Yeah more CTO options would be nice if they have the chip supply to do it. I could see them adding 13980HX or 7945HX with 4080 in the future. As far as pricing I wish I could pay them more to send the GAN 330W power supply, and also to not apply Element 31 to the high end CPU and GPU options. They should also add some bios options to disable the rainbow RGB bootup effect, disable the rear light ring, and set the keyboard to white-lighting only.

Today they added the 13980HX + 4090 option as well.

Thanks! So it sounds like these high end GPUs are probably thermally limited by the cooling system. Mine did get consistently better after a repaste (probably if anything because the CPU wasn't throttling as bad at reasonable combined load limits). Does yours also report "145W Maximum Graphics Power" in Nvidia Control Panel System Information? Yes, on a flat surface it was reaching the 87C GPU throttling limit with ~140W GPU and ~30W CPU combined load. However if I put the system on a laptop stand it does drop down to high 70's. The die size for AD103 is decently larger than AD104 so I thought maybe the same wattage over a larger surface area would be more efficient.

Yeah it has only had a single LED for a few generations now just showing battery charge status and diagnostic codes if there is a boot issue. Out of curiousity are you able to run a Timespy benchmark on the RTX 5000 Ada mobile chip? Curious where it ends up compared to the RTX 4000 Ada which gets about 16,600 in Timespy Graphics drawing up to 140W. I have heard the larger die is easier to cool so it may be better suited to the cooling solution.

Yeah after looking into what causes this, it apparently is the Intel "Innovation Platform Framework" which is just a new name for DPTF. Throttlestop can disable its effects or the drivers can be blocked from installation. So it can go higher with that disabled but it still runs into thermal throttling. PTM7950 repaste is the next step. An aftermarket heatsink is an interesting idea, but I am not sure how they could improve on it. Vapor chamber? Additional heatpipes? A thicker bottom panel to allow for higher CFM fans and larger fin stacks?

I went ahead and created one, will try to post a review soon but I have yet to create a rough draft. In single core I have seen the 13950hx draw up to 1.502v stock at 5.5ghz. Not sure where that falls compared to the 13900k, but it can draw a decent amount of power at that speed.

<Reserved for my review>

Announced / Released: March 23, 2023 13th gen Raptor Lake HX CPUs NVIDIA Ada Lovelace GPUs, up to RTX 5000 Ada mobile GeForce RTX 4080 option also available (through sales rep only in most territories) Up to 128 GB DDR5 non-ECC memory (via CAMM module), or 64 GB DDR5 ECC or non-ECC (via SODIMM) All NVMe slots support PCIe4 Full driver support for Windows 10 & Windows 11

The single core score is better, just because of higher clock speeds (if you have a paste job good enough to allow over 5ghz on a single core without thermal throttling) With multicore it has the same thermal system and power limits so its essentially robbing performance from the p-cores for additional e-cores. At least it also has better memory options. In the case of the 7780 it also has the unfortunate combined load PL1 throttling down as low as 40W. This is better than the 7670 which goes down as low as 30W in the same scenario. It should really be 55W minimum in the highest performance mode while plugged in.

Maybe also try these drivers for the 7680/7780 which worked fine on older Precisions (7560 w/3080, 7670 w/3080ti). https://www.dell.com/support/home/en-us/drivers/driversdetails?driverid=w0dp7&oscode=wt64a&productcode=precision-17-7780-laptop

The heatsink/fan assembly part number is 204PH. The CPU draws about 130W with thermal throttling (157W PL2) until it reaches PL1 which is limited to 85W at 90C average core temperatures. I do not think this has a vapor chamber either despite some marketing material I saw from Dell and Chinese sites. 15% coupon from signing up to the Dell newsletter. It is also eligible for Rakuten cashback and will get 2% Dell Rewards as well, which can be used to buy a spare power brick or similar.

Got some initial benchmarks of the Precision 7780. This is with 64GB Kingston Fury at DDR5-5200 CL38. ADA 4000 laptop GPU shows as 145W in Nvidia Control Panel and was 135W observed under load in Optimus mode. This config was about 3600usd before tax (only including 8GB SODIMM and 256GB storage). A similar config with the 4090 mobile instead was quoted at 4400usd which did not seem to be as good a value. The cooling system indeed no longer has the "grinding" startup/shutdown noise and is quieter than the 7670 with 3080ti mobile while also being 50% faster.

Did your machine with the flicker have the BOE or CSOT panel? Curious if its a vendor-specific issue. AFAIK they can use either vendor for both the 4080 and 4090 model depending on what they have on hand.

Wow yours looks quite a bit better than mine did after disassembly. On mine most of the LM was no longer emulsified in the paste and had made it past both the CPU and GPU barriers. Did you use acetone to clean everything up before applying Conductonaut? Do you intend to test any other options like PTM7950?

Yeah those Precisions are probably only a choice if you NEED the faster warranty service or expansion to 128GB of ram or four full-sized M.2 drives, or want good gauranteed compatibility with Linux/Win10 which they do support. The sales agents and spec sheets are also not listing CPU / GPU power limits so nobody really knows where they land performance wise until someone tests it out. I noticed Alienware allows the m18 to be configured with the FHD+ display and 4090 now for 3299, but it seems like there are not any coupons around right now.

Hah, I was quoted the other day for a Precision 7780 with a 13950HX, FHD 60hz and 4090 mobile (probably 130-150W TGP) for $4399 before tax.