36 minutes ago, Reciever said:

I didnt realize how bad the market has gotten in the last few months. 

 

The Red Devil 7900 XTX that I traded plus cash for seems to be selling for double? Thats nuts

 

Also returning my 3rd 12TB drive, seems people are trying to offload junk on ebay/amazon

It really is terrible right now. I also have not paid a lot of attention, but started looking closer after seeing some of the drama around 50-series and it's really bad. I think it has actually gotten worse since launch and the few people that were able to buy a 5090 or 5080 at the "expected" price still got treated wrong with reliability and functionality problems, but now the prices seem to have skyrocketed to even higher levels of unreasonableness. And, no... I absolutely do not believe that tariffs are increasing the prices by 50% or more. I do believe that the tariffs are being used as an excuse to gouge consumers and increase profits in an unethical manner. They would be doing the same thing in the absense of tariffs. If these companies were honest they would show the prices before tariffs are added and be accountable for the amount they are trying to tack on for the actual tariffs. Do I think that inventory was held back to create artificial demand and allow them to use tariffs as a lame excuse to justify exhorbitant predator pricing? Yes, I do. They're all scum. And, the scummy price gouging is not exclusively 50-series. It's everything across the board now totally out of control and getting progressively worse over the past year. We saw if first with necessities like food and other things that have nothing whatsoever to do with tariffs, Trump or Elon. The only products priced to value are the things most people don't want or need, so they have priced the trash to sell.

7 hours ago, Papusan said:

Nice be the lucky one  getting new cards. Return to sender then you need to "return back to the the queue" and hope you get new card within next 16 weeks. Maybe you get lucky a second time? What next? 

 

NVIDIA GeForce RTX 5090 Spotted with Missing ROPs, Performance Loss Confirmed

Exclusive Updated 

 

 

Today, 11:42 Updated: Today

TechPowerUp has discovered that there are NVIDIA GeForce RTX 5090 graphics cards in retail circulation that come with too few render units, which lowers performance. Zotac's GeForce RTX 5090 Solid comes with fewer ROPs than it should—168 are enabled, instead of the 176 that are part of the RTX 5090 specifications. This loss of 8 ROPs has a small, but noticeable impact on performance. During recent testing, we noticed our Zotac RTX 5090 Solid sample underperformed slightly, falling behind even the NVIDIA RTX 5090 Founders Edition card. At the time we didn't pay attention to the ROP count that TechPowerUp GPU-Z was reporting, and instead spent time looking for other reasons, like clocks, power, cooling, etc.

 

https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-components/gpus/some-rtx-5090s-are-shipping-with-missing-rop-units-leading-to-less-gaming-performance-report

 

 

Nvidia have a lot work foreards with their brand new tech.... And it seems worse than ever. Shortage is only a small part of this awful release.

We are starting to see more and more issues that suggest the 50 series was rushed and released prematurely, and some of these problems are unforgivable.

5 hours ago, electrosoft said:

Newegg Shuffle for 5090s is up. Gigabyte and Asus models are in play including the water blocked Gigabyte @tps3443!

 

You definitely have a higher than average chance of winning considering much less buyers will be targeting it vs other models.

 

 

I selected them all because why not? Odds are low, but fun to see what model I might win lol.

 

My luck it will be the overpriced TUF OC or Aorus AIO.

 

 

The 5080 pricing, although too high, would be in line with 4090 pricing. The problem is that 5080 is a downgrade from 4090 performance and specs, while priced roughly the same. The price of 5090 is just unacceptable by every measurement on face value. It's only a minor upgrade over 4090 with an absolutely absurd $1,000+ premium attached to it. Paying a ton of extra money for a small upgrade is a price to value disparity that makes no sense for anyone that has any sense. 

5 hours ago, tps3443 said:

Man, I’ve lost interest in the 5090 unfortunately. Especially one for $3,026 dollars after taxes. I think I burned my self out on it. It just doesn’t excite me anymore. 

When you step back and look at everything it is totally ridiculous. Beyond not being exciting, I think it is something everyone should be very unhappy or even angry about it. It is blantant shafting to be totally blunt about it. There is no way in hell it costs such a substantially higher amount than a 5080 to manufacture a 5090. Certainly not $800 - $1500 more depending on what brand of crookedness is your favorite. As you make your way down the product stack to the mundane options like 5070 Ti price to value proposition does not improve. Anyone that doesn't see this as getting screwed over royally just isn't playing with a full deck or they are such a fanboy that they have lost their ability to think rationally and objectively. The problem is bigger than simple greed. It is a deliberately crafted scam that can only be viewed as an ethical failure.

4 hours ago, Papusan said:

 

Maybe we'll see less scalping now? Or maybe some buyers don't care about warranty or paying too much? 

 

What I hope happens is that NVIDIA ends up taking a financial blood bath on this, but I fear there are too many stupid people that handle their financial affairs in a careless and scatterbrained manner to let them fail. They deserve to lose a fortune and incur devastating losses on this totally botched product launch and I hope that they get what they deserve. 

Now just is not a good time to spend money on computer stuff. Everything is a poor value, much of what is being sold is garbage and the desirable parts are either not available or marked up 50 to 100% more than their actual value, and marked up more than that with scalper scum.  It is happening only because people buying at those crazy jacked up prices are cooperating and allowing themselves to get screwed. Everyone is in business to make money, but not all businesses are on a mission to screw everyone dumb enough to go along with their price gouging program. Businesses that take it up a notch or two and charge the maximum amount that stupid people are willing to pay do not deserve to remain in business. The world would be a better place without them and the stupid people they call customers.

I could easily sell either of my 4090s for more than what I paid for them, but I wouldn't have enough money to buy something equal or better. I'd have to add more money or downgrade, or both add money and downgrade.

1 hour ago, johnksss said:

Walked in about 4:15 pm and happened to grab this while getting stuff for my customers.

Edit: Well this card definitely has some overclocking room. I will stay that much.

 

https://www.3dmark.com/search#advanced?test=sw P&cpuId=&gpuId=1696&gpuCount=0&gpuType=ALL&deviceType=ALL&storageModel=ALL&showRamDisks=false&memoryChannels=0&country=&scoreType=overallScore&hofMode=false&showInvalidResults=false&freeParams=&minGpuCoreClock=&maxGpuCoreClock=&minGpuMemClock=&maxGpuMemClock=&minCpuClock=&maxCpuClock=

Did Microcenter have it priced correctly(under $800) or are they selling it for 5080 MSRP prices since everyone is selling 5080 for at or above 5090 MSRP price?

Looks like they are going to try to cram a 5070 Ti up everyone's tailpipes. It seems like an inordinately aggressive marketing campaign is playing out for something that isn't very special. For many that will be a big upgrade over whatever antiquated or under-spec'd low budget setup they are updating. But, it just feels kind of scummy that the middle-ground mediocre belly-button mama's boy GPU is sucking all of the air out of the room.

2 hours ago, tps3443 said:

I really hope Nvidia falls a few brackets in popularity. Their availability is pure garbage. 
 

I’d love to see AMD/Intel make a competitive GPU that can compete with them. Intel still has no VR support which is really hurting the ARC B580.
 

Nvidia’s product performance/support is just so good, but damn I just can’t stand them anymore. 
 

I wish AMD would just throw brute size at a GPU concept that’s just overkill and overbuilt . Let it include its own 1KW PSU to power it 😂 massive die that just folds a 5090. That would be awesome. 

I think NVIDIA may be self-inflicting more damage than they might have ever imagined. AMD will gain market share selling inferior products that people will begin buying for no reason than they are sick and tired of being ripped off and scammed. I am even leaning that way now. I have hated every AMD video card that I have owned, but right now I feel like I hate NVIDIA as a company as much or more.

I am skeptical that AMD will ever make a good GPU that I would genuinely like and be glad that I bought, but there is a decent chance that I will join millions of others in  doing our tiny parts to contribute to the effort of bringing long-lasting financial harm to NVIDIA by purchasing an AMD video card next time. Whatever bad happens to NVIDIA will be a matter of their own devices and more than deserved. It won't have anything to do with AMD apart from being a 'not NVIDIA' GPU. Right place, right time.

I honestly do not believe VR support would matter for Intel because it mostly does not matter to most people. Despite being pushed hard at gamers for a very long time, (for many years,) interest has never really taken off. This is a smaller niche and more of a novelty than even overclocking. Too many find it too expensive, unnecessary, inconvenient, and the participants look like dorks to anyone watching them use it. I am not being critical of it, just explaining why I do not believe it matters to most people in the grand scheme of things.

1 hour ago, win32asmguy said:

Probably the same thing will happen this year because OEMs do not really want to produce 18 inch laptops.

On top of the huge list of other reasons that need not even be mentioned, this unfortunate reality pretty much ruins the slightest chance that anything of special interest will ever surface. The overwhelming emphasis on producing petite, lightweight trashbooks is extremely repulsive to me. It's very unfortunate the industry have chosen to pursue form factors that more or less eliminate any opportunity for them to produce something that is even a little bit special by my measurements. Sad days for PC tech no matter what direction one looks.

6 minutes ago, tps3443 said:

I she not owned a laptop in years. We’ll see how much I hate it. But I really just need something that can love about that uses Windows. And this was the perfect excuse to get a 4090 laptop. 

Looks like you had some help from AI on the wording of your post. 🤣 It seems like that is happening to me more and more, and I'm not liking it even a little bit. I have actually watched Google change something I typed even though I have all that crap disabled.

19 minutes ago, Papusan said:

Does it really matter? Nope.

No, it does not matter and I do not find it desirable, but I was curious why it is priced about 1/3 less than normal. Something seems off with it being so much cheaper than normal. Hopefully it is coming from a trusted retailer and not a scam.

2 hours ago, tps3443 said:

Acer Helios 18” 14900HX/4090/Mini LED/250Hz. I got it for $2,200 shipped. 

48 minutes ago, tps3443 said:

I wanted a raider 18, but unfortunately with taxes it was almost $400 more. This Helios 18 machine was only $2,000 dollars before tax. I don’t mind if it’s kinda crappy. I didn’t pay too much.

That seems cheaper than normal. Where did you find it that cheap? Isn't that like 1/3 less than typical for that model and spec? Usually $3K+ for that.
 

Hardware, power and thermal limitations, and disposable soldered filth excluded, the biggest issue with laptops is horrible, locked-down firmware that leaves you with muted performance and no way of correcting the issues. The CPU will likely not deliver but about half the performance of what it is capable of and the memory will likely be sloppy loose timings, high latency and uncorrectable due to no tuning options.

18 minutes ago, Papusan said:

 

With the added tax on new cards the used/old new cards follow the price spiral upwards. 

 

@tps3443 You're crazy, man😆

I would recommend P5000. Unfortunately, it's not overclockable, but it has 16GB of VRAM. Mine plays BF2024, COD and other AAA titles just fine.

10 minutes ago, electrosoft said:

Given time, prices will normalize back to MSRP across all the cards. It always does. Same with CPUs.

 

Patience = save $$$

If you look at the price of leftover stock, refurbished and used, they have not normalized and obsolete products are priced at or above MSRP for the current generation equivalent. The price of the desirable models have increased over time. The only prices that seem to be falling are for e-waste GPUs that are too old and anemic to be taken seriously. I think the world as we know it is changing and the only rules that apply now are the ones that do not make sense.

21 minutes ago, Papusan said:

 

Hmmm. Let's talk about Gigabyte,...

 

Gigabyte is  now the new price hike king here home. Gigabyte take all top 5 spots (yup, 5 different SKUs) before you start see first Asus card flash up on the price list (Astral OC LC). Isn't that cute? What's wrong with Asus? Maybe they will hit back and take the crown?🤔

Maybe they chose to be the high price king because they can't win by any other measurement .

9 minutes ago, tps3443 said:

He hit the nail on the head. We’re gonna have $1,500 dollar xx70 tier cards all sold out 😂

The PC hobby is only for the super rich now. Hey, at least we can build systems, we just cannot put a graphics card in them lol.
 

I’m not sure why we can still build a high end system for $1,000 bucks, but we’d have to spend $3,000 for a GPU to put in it 🥴

 

Intel 285K+Z890 Apex= $1,000 bucks on Newegg right now. But I’d need like $10,000 dollars to snag a 5090 Astral right now. 🤕

 

What a joke. I’m glad he called it out though. Just wish everyone would follow suite. The raping spree needs to stop, I can barely sit as is. 😁

Yup. I'm out. Not interested in throwing money away on a 5090 even if it was available at non-scalper grossly overvalued retail sucker prices.  $100 more than what I paid for my Gigabutt 4090 is all any 5090 is worth to me, except for 5090 FE which should be $500 less than what I paid for that 4090 due to the defective 5090 FE design.

12 hours ago, Papusan said:

What English word can surpass and replace Disgusting?

Maybe the word "repulsive." It really all depends on the accentuation and emphasis upon tone and pronunciation at the point of delivery.

If done properly, a completely innocuous word that doesn't even make good sense in the context you use it can be hurled as a verbal assault, delivered in an insulting manner that sounds like the most vile and offensive filth that ever spewed from a person's lips.

Examples:

That note plucking bucket is a lime-scented candle-licker.

She is just another caramelized acetone-tumbling skillet.

2 hours ago, Papusan said:

Does it look much better from AMD if the prices is close to be real? What English word can surpass and replace Disgusting?

Nope. Did I expect for anyone to be smart about it, or for anything to make good sense? Nope.

Some of the smartest people that I have ever seen become bat$hit crazy when graphics cards are involved.

The A$$zeus tax seems to be an extra $350 no matter the model, price tag or performance tier. Now all brands have joined the party. It's called the "let's screw everyone dumb enough to let us" party.

We're all invited to their nasty glory hole paper launches. They are using toilet paper instead of cardboard this time. It burns faster and produces less soot.

2 hours ago, jaybee83 said:

in any case, im just happy now i finally found a card in stock and with an "ok" price. plus im seeing more and more price drops from the scalpers on ebay. are we FINALLY holding strong, guys?!?! is this the turn of the tide? if so then I am SO

 

of you and all of us! keep it up! 🙂 

Good things come to those that wait...

1 hour ago, Papusan said:

This is like sweet music in the ears for AMD. Close to $1000 for xx70Ti cards is more the norm. And $899 is the budget cards.

 

 

https://videocardz.com/newz/asus-geforce-rtx-5070-ti-prime-msrp-card-now-listed-at-899-by-two-us-retailers

2 hours ago, jaybee83 said:

phsew my wife just pulled me back from the edge.

Being pulled back from the edge is always preferred to falling over the edge.

Especially when it is such a long way to the bottom.

Looks like the scalping nonsense is poised to strike with the sissy-boy 5070 Ti. If you want 5070 Ti pricing you'll need to wait for the baby-girl 5070 or 5060 launch.

"We don't have any 5090 or 5080 to sell, but we will sell you a 5070 Ti for the 5080 price."

1 hour ago, tps3443 said:

This dude on overclock.net has just reappeared. He has now just sent me an invoice for $1,550. However, I cannot pay it for some reason. It gives me an error on my PC and on my phone. I have never had this happen before. And now it all feels extremely suspicious. I don’t understand why he can’t just send me his PayPal so I can just pay for it. 
 

I’ve paid invoices before. I feel like something is up. 

I will see if I can find the thread and see who he is. Is he a longtime member with feedback from other sales transactions? If not, then definitely something to approach with great caution. Is he in the US or another country? I ask because problems are harder to resolve with legal action if one of the parties is not a US citizen and they can often get away with scams and shenanigans scott-free. I've been scammed twice by sales on eBay to individuals in China and eBay was worthless. I did not get paid for what was sold.

Edit: I found it. Looks like he has been part of the community for a long time. His user profile shows a decent amount of recent unrelated forum activity and he is in Louisiana. So no huge red flags. He has no buyer or seller feedback, but lots of people do not. There is always a first time for everyone. Maybe see if you can talk to the guy by phone and work it out. Any reasonable person would agree to that.

https://www.overclock.net/threads/asus-rog-strix-gaming-rtx-4090-oc-edition-24gb-gddr6x-gpu.1814813/

5 hours ago, jaybee83 said:

wouldnt worry about the 3090Ti, Ampere actually had load balancing built in. they regressed with 40 and 50 series on that front, as reported by Roman. thats why we didnt see any melting cables with the 3090 / 3090 Ti, even though they were also running insane wattages with the XOC vbios versions.

Newer is always better newer. 😉

1 hour ago, tps3443 said:

I thought it looked decent running Haven at 3,150Mhz core even if only at 1080P. So I was like dang either way it ain’t bad for $1,550. My 4090 cannot do that lol. 

It is always a silicon lottery on the core and often the memory for all brands. You get lucky or you don't no matter what you buy. It might be a superior silicon sample, but not because it is an overpriced Strix, just a matter of random luck.

It's unfortunate that paying extra for a Strix doesn't actually allow any degree of confidence for realizing anything more for your money than an ASUS Dual, MSI Ventus, PNY XLR8 or Windforce other than a bit more garish than normal amounts of rainbow puke and candy-colored splash accents, and a freakishly large metal shroud to make it heavier and more likely to tear memory and core BGA solder pads off the PCB.

1 hour ago, tps3443 said:

12v2x6 has been solid for me with my 4090. I use to worry about it when I first got the 4090 though. I didn’t trust it at all! I think if we just periodically check the cable temps from time to time it will be okay.
 

Oh, and! I tried to snag that 4090 STRIX OC for $1,550 on OC.net.. I PM’ed the guy, and was like “WHATS YOUR PAYPAL?” He responded and said. “Send me your PayPal and I’ll send you an invoice” so, I sent my PayPal, and he said he “Sending invoice now” now he has totally ghosted me, and I haven’t gotten anything at all. 🤷‍♂️ 

 

My plan was to buy that Strix OC 4090, then turn right around and sell my Gaming OC 4090 for probably the same price (Maybe a little less) lol. 😂 

 

But it’s not going to plan. The guy has either gotten cold feet, or he’s a scammer.. Not really sure. 

No guarantee it would have been any better than what you have now. The Strix 4090 that I bought and returned for refund totally sucked at core and memory overclocking. My 4090 MSI Suprim and my 4090 GB Gaming OC both obliterated the crappy Strix turd GPU that I sent back to NewEgg. I do not consider any ASUS GPU a good option, especially Strix and Astral models, because they are overpriced beyond everything else for no valid reason and offer no guarantee of giving you anything in return for the higher price tag except for a stupid proprietary upside-down 12VHPWR morphodite connector. ASUS is totally a joke when it comes to GPUs. If I had to buy one it would be a TUF or Prime GPU.

You can probably get $2000+ your 4090 from an idiot. Even 3090 Ti is still selling for around $1500, 3090 for $1000+ and 3080 Ti for around $900. Who knew there were so many retards left? GPU prices make them easy to spot. The problem is that anything you sell for an "appropriate" price will cost you twice what its true value is to replace it. 

I don't own any 12V2x6 cables. I think all revisions of the 12VHPWR connector are like putting lipstick on a pig and don't believe the "new and improved" connectors are any less fragile or prone to melting.

Both of my 4090s still look fine and they both have a Thermal Grizzly WireView in the GPU socket. My hope is that if the cables ever melt they will melt into the WireView socket and leave the GPU socket alone. The one in the Ryzen build uses the 12VHPWR cable included with the Corsair PSU and the Apex build uses the 12VHPWR cable included with the Thermaltake Toughpower. The 3090 Ti is also still looking normal and it uses the Corsair PSU 12VHPWR cable connected directly to the GPU. I have no reason to believe that any of them will melt since they have not even though I have pushed close to 700W through the wimpy 12VHPWR connectors on both of the 4090s numerous times, but the possibility is never forgotten or dismissed.

6 hours ago, Papusan said:

Hmmm. The $300 price premium for the oc'd flagship model from Zotac offer less ompa than the cheaper MSRP card from Inno3D. Pay more...Get less. Or maybe the price premium nowadays is more for the bling bling factor? More bling = More expensive? 

 

MSRP card.

 

Paying extra for tacky crap that only kiddos care about is the way things are done now. What matters most no longer matters. Remember, these are the same bozos that think that dumb-looking cartoon character action hero and stupid Pokemon figurines perched on their GPU or on top of the case are what make their computer something special. I actually prefer the muted appearance of cards like this one and the ASUS TUF over the garish gamer trash.

13 hours ago, Papusan said:

AMD don't price their own cards themself. They use Nvidia's prices for own graphics cards. That's disgusting. 

 

And for the records... They know everything about Nvidia's performance estimates for each new tier cards long before they are even mentioned in leaks. We saw that clearly  when we saw what they said about 4080 performance for their top tier cards. 

Maybe not when it first goes to market, but after a short time it is ultimately the people purchasing products that determine the price. If everyone accepts ludicrous prices they remain indefinitely ludicrous. When enough people say no and walk away from overpriced products, that is when we identify what those objects are truly worth. The value of any product is defined by how much people will pay for that product. How much it cost to produce and how much or little profit (or loss) is derived from the sale of it ultimately does not matter. The defining moment is at the cash register. When idiots are in the majority and common sense becomes a derrogatory adjective rather than a compliment, we see things like current 4090 and 5090 scalper prices become the new normal at the cash register.

So, ultimately we have only to thank the man in the mirror and the legions of similarly unintelligent people surrounding us. Saying no to impulsive desires is not that difficult, but most people are not willing to exercise good judgment or self-restraint when it feels too good for them to stroke whatever monkey tickles them most.

What would be really wonderful would be seeing repeated product launch failures and collapse of sales of new-to-market products because of overly-aggressive predator pricing. Manufacturers should be put in a position of having to actually go to the effort of identifying ways to sell enough volume of modestly profitable products to keep the lights on and stay in the black. That's is what needs to happen and what would be for the ultimate good of everyone, but it will likely never happen. Good things happen to bad people but good things never happen to idiots that facilitate and contribute to their own self-destruction.

4 hours ago, electrosoft said:

 

We saw a tale of two cities with AMD.

 

During Ampere/Crypto, we saw a card that had raster almost on the level of the 3090 AND demand that was so insane AMD couldn't keep them in stock either and their market share rose and shook Nvidia.

 

Ada era they lost out on performance, RT and the market wasn't as hungry and when given a choice, buyers flocked to Nvidia and their marketshare dropped noticeably.

 

Now? They are losing even more and potentially pricing even worse and they just don't have the mind space of gamers like Nvidia. They have had the opportunity twice now to really price their cards competitively to make in roads but it looks like they are again content to not really attack the low and mid like Intel is doing atm.

 

I was hoping AMD focused on the mid market and really came out with a banger of a card priced insanely competitively.

 

-----

 

Then of course we now have Nvidia ramping up production of the 5090 so hopefully scalpers get zinged and buyers can get cards but the initial MSRP pricing is gone now and I'm afraid cards will remain priced as they are even purchased at MSRP:

 

https://videocardz.com/newz/nvidia-gb202-gpu-supply-for-rtx-5090-set-to-increase-retailer-has-147-rtx-5080-cards-but-not-selling-them-separately

The availability problem being solved will only matter for those willing to be screwed unless prices fall to what 40-series video card already poor value MSRP was. Otherwise the juice is not worth the squeeze and you're still getting screwed. Anything above $1000 for 5080 or $1800 for 5090 and you're screwing yourself and everyone else that you don't care about. The only winner is the seller that you allowed to screw you in the butt with no lube.

4 hours ago, electrosoft said:

Anybody who paid the prices asked for 5080s and 5090s....whew.....that's gonna hurt just to be first.

I really hope so. It needs to hurt severely. Bad behavior and stupid decisions need to carry brutal consequences for the person acting them out. The attitude that I want what I want when I want it and don't care how much it costs or how the willingness to overpay harms everyone else in the process deserves to end in tragedy and burn a never-forgotten painful lesson into brains of those that found no ability to exercise self-control or sound judgement that they carry to their grave. It would be good lesson for every 5090 owner that fought to be first to find out everyone else is paying $800-$1000 less than you did. If you camped on the sidewalk then it just sucks even more to be you, because you were an even dumber dumba$$.