1610ftw
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Everything posted by 1610ftw
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HP workstations are usually very easy to open and it can also be very easy to swap drives and RAM for them and starting with Zbook 17 G6 they introduced a vapor chamber for at least the top models. I like their design and I also prefer their non-rubbery palm rest so it is too bad that they have a bunch of - for me unsurmountable - drawbacks: They used to have a very annoying behaviour with regard to fans ramping up out of nowhere and I did not manage to find a good program that really took care of that issue - I am told this is still the case if any kind of significant power draw is desired either single or multi core. My last experience with that was with Zbook 17 G5 and G6 and after that I stopped paying attention. Also HP used to charge a lot for top tier CPUs while for Dell it is often a no-brainer to get the best CPU as their surcharge is very reasonable. As has been mentioned deals seem to be more frequent for Dell, too and their CPU and GPU performance USED to be better. Another recent and huge fail is indeed that HP has turned its back on 17.3" which is something that automatically disqualifies them for me - I want my laptop screens to grow, not to shrink 🙂
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I agree that it is most likely some kind of software bug causing some of the trouble but it would also be an issue with how the new heatsink design has to be mounted and making contact as temperatures get very high with without the CPU or GPU using all that much power. A bad paste job is unlikely imo as the sole reason as several systems seem to have very similar issues. The power supply of the 7770 tells us that it is not meant for absolute peak performance but as it is now Dell would have to be ashamed of the results for its top tier workstation so I expect for them to find ways to improve upon the performance that @Aaron44126 and others are seeing.
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Nah, just wait for the X170 successor that you can put your 13900K into - we need it so it has to materialize 😄
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With space for at least 4 SSDs and 128GB memory it used to be Clevo, HP, Dell and MSI and I think those only came with a 17" screen. Add top tier GPU and you were down to Clevo, MSI and Dell and now Clevo have sold their soul to Intel for this generation, hopefully to return for the next top tier GPU (and CPU) generation.
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Understood, but you still want to figure out if this is it with regard to performance or not. From what I can gather you are getting graphics performance that you could also get with the RTX A4500 card (more below) and that isn't right. As Dell charges almost no surcharge for the 12950 it does not make sense to get something smaller but it still is a rather low score. Hehe, we seem to have the same shopping list except for the GPU 🙂 The keyboard layout of the GT77 is an insult, even more so for its workstation version - very nice to type but no idea who was the imbecile who thought it was a good idea to go with that key size and key arrangement for the numpad and it other keys. I would think that support is also better with Dell so for your use case the 7770 would be preferable. I cannot help with the 7770 part of things but I can comment on the performance expectation of the hardware. The GE76 that I currently have here with a 3070 Ti and the 12700H can do ca. 12000 Time Spy and over 17000 CR23 out of the box. With some tweaking (MSI Afterburner and Throttlestop no repasting or bios tweaks) I can get up to about 12900 Time Spy and 18000 CR23 for single runs, ca. 15800 sustained. That was with Prochot set to 95 so with Prochot set to 100 it would probably be good for a few hundred more. As you can see those are higher scores but with an inferior CPU and GPU and the CPU cooling capability of the GE76 is not that great which seems to be the norm for most gaming machines as during gaming CPU power will be reduced anyway. With the GT77 with your CPU and GPU hardware equivalent you are looking at ca. 13500 Time Spy and higher from what I can see and 24K CR23 single run and around 20 to 21K CR23 for repeated runs. For that one there also is not that much data so far except for a number of Time Spy leaderboard rankings where the best scores are between 14.5 and 15K but who knows how these are achieved. As for your unit it would be good to check your paste application as the cooling solution does not look so anemic that it should not stay cooler with only 75W sustained CPU usage but no reasons to do that before you machine is swapped.
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Biggest current generation COMBINED power draw for CPU and GPU is 250W - kind of puts things in perspective 😄
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Indeed an overheating and throttling CPU's seems to be a regular occurrence these days even with top of the line products and I hope that @Aaron44126 gets his 7770 sorted out within the return window.
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I feel your pain. It is rather disheartening to see the performance that MSI leaves on the table. With all the custom Clevo heatsinks out there on Ali Express I am surprised nobody is offering an aftermarket solution for at least the GE76 and maybe the new GT77. A nice unified heatsink with significantly more cooling capability should be doable with a bit more weight and volume. To accommodate it they could even add a higher bottom cover that would result in a laptop that may be 2 to 4mm higher at the back and I wouldn't be surprised to see it becoming a good seller.
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Those temps are quite high! Can you please check how high both with regard to the score and the temps with just one CR23 multi core run? Probably not that much if indeed the CPU never draws more than 75W. The issue seems to be that even with only 75W the 7770 currently goes right up to 100°C and beyond. To make better use of the superior multi core performance of the 12950HX I would expect the 7770 to be able to sustain a draw of 100W for the longer CR23 run and at least 125W for a single run. For comparison my 7760 draws up to 110W in a single CR23 multi core run and I would guess it should be able to sustain at least 90W. That is also with 128 GB memory and 4 SSDs. By the way: That CAMM module is huge 😄
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It seems like the 7770 still needs some optimization to improve both CPU and GPU performance. Even with more limited cooling capability it should be possible to hit at least 19K on CR23 and 12K on Time Spy. I just hope that the new heatsink design isn't a limiting factor.
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That is at the upper end of performance that one can get with a laptop 3080 Ti so it is a good option for a laptop with limited cooling capability and a unified heatsink that can then deal with only the CPU - excellent choice for the Dell workstations. I wonder what could be achieved with the other solution that taps into the PCI-E connector. I have been meaning to check it out with one of the laptops that I have here but never got around to it as it seemed like a rather clumsy contraption and I do not need that much GPU performance myself.
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Here is a pic of the inside courtesy of notebookcheck: MSI may want to check with Lenovo or Asus to learn a thing or two about proper unified heatsinks. Better to have a unified heatsink and therefore improved cooling in GPU or CPU biased applications and then use some kind of intelligent algo to determine where power goes in applications with both high CPU and GPU usage.
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I have a GE76 here that is going back soon. One of the reasons is the severely underdeveloped cooling capability for its CPU that is made even worse due to the inability to undervolt. Or to put it another way: I am not aware of any option to undervolt the 12700H on the GE76. Also TIM application is lacking with temperature differences of up to 15 °C (81 to 96). Despite these shortcomings CR23 went up to 18034 and I would think that with some better TIM application it may go up to maybe 19000. As the heatsink area for the CPU is very small and getting very little love with regard to heatpipes I am not sure how much of a difference it would make for longer runs as at some point it will be saturated and only so much heat can be transported away by the insufficient cooling. Just did a 10 minute run and performance came crushing down to 15787 (minus 12.5%) without Throttlestop, probably going to be higher with some tweaking. Sustained power draw as is seems to be limited to about 80W before throttling with Prochot set to 95°C So for gaming the GE76 may be very good as the cooling capabilities for the GPU are a lot higher but as far as the CPU is concerned this is definitely a throttlebook and I am surprised they offer it like that as a workstation where CPU performance is more important: https://www.msi.com/Workstation/WE76-11UX/Specification
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Thanks, looks like a nice increase compared to what I take it you had with your 1080! Have you tested with and without water cooling to see what kind of difference it makes?
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A shunt modded 3070 should give you about 3080 performance levels I guess? In any case I found a water cooling solution for the P870TM here: https://www.cdrtd.com/products/laptop-water-cooled-air-cooled-integrated-radiator-for-clevo-p870tm-p870tm1-p870tm-g-gx10.html It looks like this is different from what you got. The problem with all of these is not only the price itself but also shipping and customs and import VAT which is 19% over here: It would be used with a P870TM with the old two piece cooling solution that came with early 6-Core processors so I guess even without water cooling that would be an upgrade. And I would like to second what @jaybee83 says: Good to have you (back) here 👍
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I also doubt we will ever be at 100% but it would be nice if with for example a 3080 Ti mobile and a 3080 Ti eGPU we would get at least halfway in the direction of the desktop card. From what I saw last year of a laptop 3060 and 3080 vs their eGHPU counterparts they were both slower than what could be achieved in a Clevo X170 and that wasn't so great.
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Let's not forget that he is getting 20K out of a CPU with only 6 performance cores. With a 12900HX I would expect at least 24K from the BGA book if not more. But yes, given all its limitations it is quite impressive what can be done with that little Clevo with an above average chip. Another benefit that by design is not available to the BGA book where you have to take what you can get, no chance to later swap for a chip that is 5 or even 10% better than average. Now imagine that Clevo had used a bigger 17" chassis that I heard they used to have until recently - what was the name again...
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Have not followed developments in that area for a long time, last I looked TB3 was limited and if I remember correctly having less performance than a 3080 due to TB3 (and TB4) bandwidth limitations. Looking forward to TB5 or whatever it will be to finally let external top of the line GPUs run at max performance.
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Do you have a link to the heatsink you got or is it some kind of DIY heatsink? Is it comparable in performance to the previous heatsink you had when the water cooling isn't active?
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Only for the 5 seconds that it takes for the system to throttle down to about half of that so no need for a new power supply 😄
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- dell precision 7770
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That is rather depressing. I was fully expecting to be able to at least buy different cards within a series but it seems they do indeed not want to see these out in the open which is a shame. The same goes for the complete lack of support for the 51m chassis that has been advertised as upgradable and modular but with little to none of that having any positive effect for owners.
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- dell precision 7770
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Yes I know, just having a bit of fun 🙂 This is what it seems like, same as with your heatsink 😄 Did you get the unified 3080 compatible heatsink that also offers water cooling capability or a different one?
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Happy ending? So it was from Asia after all 😄 Happy endings aside that is an excellent price - I have stopped checking their ebay account in recent times as all my laptops are where I want them to be as of now but to get a 3080 at that price is pretty stunning.
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About the current DGFF cards and especially that special order 3080Ti maybe @Dell-Mano_G can tell us if there are plans to offer it for users of the Alienware 51m or some previous workstation laptops? Dell would have a great way to distinguish itself by making this possible.
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OLEDs do dim over time but I doubt that you will get an estimate that for new screens tells how normal PC use will result in x percent dimming after 1000/2000/5000 hours of use.
