1610ftw
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Everything posted by 1610ftw
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Sorry, I did not want to rub it in, I thought that you were thinking of returning the 7670 🙂 To be fair from what I am reading max performance seems limited out of the box but it can be improved and is of course not all that counts. The MSI Z17 performs better with two P-cores less but it is quite a bit worse than its smaller brother Z16P which is disappointing: https://www.notebookcheck.net/MSI-Creator-Z17-Laptop-review-What-are-creatives-and-gamers-getting-for-around-4-000-Euro.657318.0.html#toc-5
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double post, @Recieverplease delete
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In CB R23 it is more like 50% faster, it looks like the MSI is using a different CPU generation: https://www.notebookcheck.net/The-Intel-Core-i7-12800HX-is-insane-MSI-Raider-GE67-HX-12UGS-laptop-review.632780.0.html And to add insult to injury the GE67 is by no means massive, in fact even the "slim" 7670 is heavier than the GE67 by about 10% (2.724 vs 2.469) and possibly also a bit taller. I assume that one of the reasons for the added weight is that MSI is all BGA and this will save some weight. Personally I would prefer more weight and socketed hardware but what do I know. In any case more weight and significantly worse performance is rather disappointing. The X17 probably is a bit lighter than the 7770 but it also is a lot deeper. As for the Z17 it stinks, stay away if you want proper performance.
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- dell precision 7770
- dell precision 7670
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We certainly are on the same page but manufacturers these days are not even on the same bookshelf any more. They proudly parade their regression for all of us to see like for example MSI who reduced the sustained power draw for GPU and CPU from well in excess of 300W to 250W. Or Dell that had a power draw of - oh wait they did not really have that as those Area 51m went up in flames. And then Clevo who for this generation do not even have a proper flagship model any more, let's hope it will return with Raptor Lake.
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More cooling is indeed very bad as your laptop may get a little bit heavier and most of all a bit more expensive to produce. Never mind that it would also: - run cooler - produce less noise - last longer - clock higher And we all know that nobody would want that...
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The lack of ambition even in top of the line products is rather sickening.
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For a new machine this is the worst temperature differential between cores that I have seen!
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This is the best DTR related news in a long time! 18" 16:10 in 2560x1600 with 480Hz refresh would appeal to both gamers and for productivity work as a middle ground between the Full HD and UHD and it is a logical step up from the 16" 16:10 screens that seem to be the new normal. I would have preferred bigger but at least we again are back to the screen real estate of those old 18.4" 16:9 screens. I also looked this one up on Ali Express and it says "only" 165Hz and a low 600:1 contrast, hopefully the contrast number is incorrect and also the refresh rate seems to be a bit too with others offering up to 240Hz with QHD: https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/18-0-inch-laptop-lcd-screen_1600479779605.html?spm=a2700.shop_plgr.41413.17.130869e6zLx4xw
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I would be fine with that but as I mentioned I always fear that we might lose certain capabilities when companies think that automatic is good enough.
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I think there is a place for pre-maxed out hardware and there is a place for hardware with more room for improvement. Intel usually excels in the second domain and AMD more in the first - boring but too close to max performance out of the box. I had a BGA book over with really bad out of the box performance with its 12700H but with a little bit of playing around increases of 20 to 25% in multicore performance were achieved which is a lot more satisfactory then getting something in that cannot be improved even if the performance end result is the same. Ultimately there was no way to adjust voltages and multipliers which is a big no-no but at least a bit of fun could be had with increasing and decreasing power limits to find the sweet spot for multicore benching.
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My experience is that when manufacturers give us something automatic they also have the arrogance to take away customizability as they deem not necessary anymore. There rarely are examples of both coexisting. So I understand @Mr. Fox who possibly has observed that, too. I couldn't care less about lazy underachievers getting better performance out of their chips and those who really care about that are getting limited by the manufacturers because they deem their automatic options to be good enough. And if a manufacturer really manages to do extremely well compared to an experienced overclocker/tweaker despite allowing him all the tools that he needs then I will be the first to recommend their products but do not expect too many examples of this any time soon.
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Yeah, I figured that your lady would not care that much and be happy with what she has 🙂 Waiting for prices to go down sound like a good idea in that case and besides you have your hands full with your new AMD rig 😉 I would also think that this generation will be reasonably close and I agree on competition. Gotta hand it to AMD for pushing both Intel and Nvidia!
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Something tells me that you will be crazy enough to try even that one on poor Alfred 😄 Some very smart people at Intel and yet they seem to have trouble to get comparisons with their competitors right - wonder why that is... But yeah, same old same old and the reason why I do not even look at the comparisons any more that a company does with others. Intel against Intel, AMD against AMD or Nvidia against Nvidia is fine but not this kind of bullshit - waste of time.
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- intel
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Alfred will LOVE that 13900K 😄
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Wow, these things run HOT! Nothing that I would want anywhere near a laptop, especially these days. And while I admire what der8auer is doing it should not be almost mandatory to delid in order to compensate for a manufacturer failing to get basic things right in designing a CPU.
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Wow, now this is a surprise! Looks VERY interesting for some of us who actually want to use their X170KM-G away from the power outlet from time to time. Again I am puzzled why Clevo would not offer it as a stock option like other manufacturers do, just make the default Optimus off and the performance would be the same as without the option. Makes it even harder to respect them given the broken and limited bios they ship these with.
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I have been quite happy with the 10850K in my X170 with all memory slots and 3 out of 4 storage slots in use. CPU performance has obviously improved in leaps and bounds with Alder Lake and regarding single core also with Rocket Lake so there is no denying that a half decent laptop with a 12900H should give equal or better CPU performance. As for the other issues of being loud, hot and having short battery life that also applies to the SM-G version. The same goes for the assinine power supply design that forces us to always drag these two power supplies with us for no good reason except that Clevo was very very stupid when designing this power delivery train wreck.
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Just seeing this now, looks like silm pickings at the moment! With unknown needs for the upcoming years I would probably look into the GT77 / CreatorPro X17 and the Dell 7770 if it has to be something from this generation with up to 128GB memory and a 17+" screen. You may want to look into the warranty and downtime options offered by Dell and MSi as they may differ, there may also be a difference between the MSi workstation and gaming model. Generally speaking Dell will come out on top with regard to configurability and warranty and MSI will be ahead in raw performance and bios options. Dell will look more business like and less deep but you may still prefer the half stealthy half aggressive look of the MSI versions, for quiet typing and less RGB to deactivate you might want to go with the X17 instead of the GT77. Overall I find that Dell looks more solid and has a better keyboard layout but prefer the tactile feedback on the MSI keyboards and I also prefer their non-rubberized palm rests. MSI is all BGA now so that warranty may even be more important because a defective mainboard may really break the bank as both CPU and GPU are soldered to it We lovingly call that BGA book, BGA filth, craptop or turdbook 😄 With the Dell at least the GPU is socketed which reduce the potential for catastrophic failure but then you would probably buy warranty anyway so that point may be moot for your use case. Oh and one last thing: You may want to invest in a second 17.3" portable screen - I find at least one of them really helpful when on the road and for some time now they actually have 17.3" UHD screens available, for example this: https://www.ebay.com/itm/284902126872?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=nu0vana7reg&sssrc=2047675&ssuid=YOZgifDWTYu&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY I have the QHD version and it is really good and also costs less. if you resize to 150% anyway you may consider to go with the QHD screen.
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The GT76 had a higher power envelope and if they had kept this for the GT77 you could probably run the CPU at 150 instead of 75W. But as you say everything has gotten quite a bit more efficient over the years so without the ability to upgrade the flagships of yesterday just cannot keep up anymore. And yes, the new CPU is so much more efficient that at 75 Watt you will still be outperforming the 9900K by quite some margin - enjoy!
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Where was the GT77 discounted so heavily? You will probably get a 30 to 50% higher single run multicore bench in CB23 and if you are multi-tasking it is possible that you will see an even bigger improvement going from a maximum of 10 to 16 cores on the GT77. Are there specific reasons why you went with the GT77 instead of the GE77HX? Possible memory and/or storage expansion?
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It is quite obvious that you really want this one to work and rightfully so given the fact that it ticks all your boxes except for performance. And very good idea to just go with the stock heatsink first, maybe that will also be the heatsink that others get going forward so it will be a better representation of what they can expect with regard to performance. Looking forward to hear about possible improvement with the Honeywell pads, I have them on order, too.
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I would probably have gotten an X170 successor of that kind but most people are after the ultimate graphics performance so I can understand their reluctance. You can say what you want about Intel but the way they are producing their chips makes it quite easy to offer a socketed model for them, nothing that Intel really can do against it. Not so easy for Nvidia chips that cannot be bought freely on the open market. I feel that Nvidia uses this leverage to dominate and coerce manufacturers at will - aren't there laws against that and the lack of competition and progress that comes with it? In any case it should be possible to get a 3080 Ti desktop chip and build a 250W MXM successor with it or even a 300W GPU BGA monster but instead Nvidia prefers to dictate to buyers what they can and cannot do.
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This can of course be seen both ways and I agree that it looks like the blame lies with Nvidia, same as with the request by Tongfang/Uniwill to increase max power to more than 175W as their water cooling would allow for it - DENIED.
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LOL @ LilShit 😄 Very similar to my first thought when I discovered which platform Clevo had selected to allow use of the mighty 12900K while making a mockery of their X series that should have had that capability instead.
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Only reason I can think about is that Intel footed much of the bill. The X270 is a joke to the serious gamer, a joke to X170 owners who want a modular and (theoretically) upgradable successor and it also does not appeal to the thin and light crowd so I strongly doubt that Clevo would be so stupid to spend much money on such a misfire. Amen to that. Looking at Dell, HP and Lenovo having modular cards it leaves a very bitter taste that there wasn't already a proper Clevo DTR in this generation with everything including the 3080 Ti being available, at least for others. Clevo missed a huge opportunity.
